disc brakes in cyclocross at last

[frank9755]

Do we take it that you only ride in the dry?
Current rim brakes are a long way from adequate in moderate or heavy rain.

Locking up a wheel and skidding is more likely to happen on a wet road!

Isn't the issue with performance in the wet to do with tyres, not brakes?
ie the low amount of grip that a contact patch the size of a small fingernail can have when wet

 

[MacB]

One question - where will all the fluid be stored? Is there enough room in the hoods?

Not currently so you're either looking at mechanical disc brakes or some sort of reservoir under the stem with pistons actuated via standard brake cables, I've seen pictures of one that Hope did.

I think you'd see a split here of hydraulic at the top end and cable further down and also cable for the touring/commuting market. But I have no experience of dealing with hydraulic brakes and maybe I'm just being too conservative in my attitudes. I like stuff that I can self maintain with minimal faff and hydraulics don't seem to fit that bill.

 

[Smokin Joe]

I doubt we'll see hydraulic systems on road bikes. Cable systems would be adequate for power, lighter and need less maintenance

 

[tigger]

Locking up a wheel and skidding is more likely to happen on a wet road!

Isn't the issue with performance in the wet to do with tyres, not brakes?
ie the low amount of grip that a contact patch the size of a small fingernail can have when wet

Hmm not sure... if anything a really skinny tyre cuts through water better than a wider one, i.e. less likely to aquaplane. I race kite buggys and we use the skinniest tyres we can get away with on hard wet beaches.. Sure you don't want to lock up, but provided theres a wide band of modulation this should be avoidable

 

[Smokin Joe]

All the arguments about locking wheels and riders being launched over the handlebars were being trotted out when disc brakes first appeared on motorcycles. No one would dream of buying a bike without them now.

 

[snailracer]

That's an interesting take on it, it's not a subject I know a huge amount about, general reading on the web does seem to return the idea that, 'they're made this way coz it's been proven to be the best design'. I'd be very interested to follow some links to alternate ideas etc.

Google:
Trek Y-foil
Zipp 2001 & 3001

They look a bit like TT/Triathlon bikes do today, but then if the UCI rules were not as restrictive, today's TT bikes would probably all be recumbents...

 

[frank9755]

Hmm not sure... if anything a really skinny tyre cuts through water better than a wider one, i.e. less likely to aquaplane. I race kite buggys and we use the skinniest tyres we can get away with on hard wet beaches.. Sure you don't want to lock up, but provided theres a wide band of modulation this should be avoidable

Yes, I agree that the thinner tyre cuts through water better and acquaplaning is more likely on fatter tyres, but even mountain bike tyres are too thin to acquaplane: you can't aquaplane on bike tyres unless you get to something like 90mph! (The maths is on Sheldon's site / elsewhere if you're interested)

Fatter tyres, which are run at lower pressures, do have more grip.

 

[jpembroke]

when are we going to get ABS brakes on bikes then? Seriously! It's gonna happen at some point

 

[tigger]

Fatter tyres, which are run at lower pressures, do have more grip - in the dry.

Fixed that for you

 

[andrew_s]

Locking up a wheel and skidding is more likely to happen on a wet road!

Isn't the issue with performance in the wet to do with tyres, not brakes?
ie the low amount of grip that a contact patch the size of a small fingernail can have when wet

The problem with rim brakes in the wet is that you get very little braking at all until the brakes have cleared the water off the rims. You might not mind brakes that don't work for a second or two after you've applied them, but I do.
I have seen it so wet that the brakes can't clear the rims at all, with consequent runaway down a steep hill and written off bike and broken pelvis at the bottom.

 

[Ghost Donkey]

Interesting one for cyclocross bikes. I've not ridden cyclocross (yet) but as MTBs don't have problems running them then it would make sense on the face of it. The issue with sharp breaking and riding in a bunch, particularly at the start, would be the same any of the other reasons the race bunches with lots of riders in there together riding differently to each other to vvarying degrees.

 

[NickM]

I'd be very interested to follow some links to alternate ideas etc.

Like this?

The diamond frame bicycle reached its essential form years ago; only new materials have appeared since. If it's real innovation you're interested in, you have to look beyond the sport controlled by the dead hand of the UCI.

Mike Burrows (he's 67, you know!) rode 28.54 miles in one hour on the machine linked in August 2009.

And its (single) brake is crap!

 

[JoysOfSight]

On the old bike I had a Dura-Ace dual caliper, with special pads on one of the (expensive!!) Mavic ceramic Open Pros at the front.

It was such a relief to start riding with a front disc!

I can understand why people are afraid, and I'm sure there will always be the option of running a rim brake (just as you can still buy V's for off-road). But I think the cyclocross decision will really drive road discs forward, excellent.

 

[jack the lad]

What's not to like about disc brakes?

Hydraulic discs are virtually maintenance free until the pads are worn and then they are simple to replace and require no setting up. Performance is consistent in all weathers, no sudden grab as water and dirt is dispersed like rim brakes. They can be very powerful but controllable and easy to modulate. They are not heavy now and I'm sure that pure road versions could be made even lighter and the weight is concentrated in the centre of the wheel . They would allow rim designers scope to develop lighter but stronger rims as there would be no need to compromise design to provide the materials and shapes required for braking surfaces.

As long as a sport is competitive it doesn't matter what equipment people are using, but it is strange that cycling manufacturers don't put pressure on to allow more technical development as that would drive innovation and allow them to sell more bikes and kit.

On the other hand, why should ordinary road riders allow themselves to be limited by the rules for road racing if there is better technology available. There is no reason why there should not be divergence - if something works in the real world let racers keep their increasingly anachronistic machines and adopt the new technology for yourself.

 

[MartinC]

What's not to like about disc brakes?

Well if you're in the road environment that the UCI regulate:

The brake fade 'cos a disc can't disperse the heat generated in an alpine descent.

The overweight forks that are required to use them.

The issues with compatibility and quick wheel changes.


When these get sorted out then the manufacturers and riders will pressurise the UCI to change (like in cyclo cross).