Disc or no disc?

[ianrauk]

I agree, it is not a big deal. I've stated my preference. But what is a HDB?

Hydraulic disc brake.

 

[Drago]

Some kind of brown sauce?

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Having had the joy of stripping and rebuilding 2 x Hope master cylinders I don't buy in to the maintenance argument for hydro's. Id rather twiddle a cable adjuster for less than 5 seconds every three months, than spend several hours every 5 years with increasingly bad tourettes. Sure, Hydro's are quite resilient, less likely to go bad, but when they do you'll be cursing more than a Guy Ritchie gangster.

May I introduce you to Shimano hydraulics? None of that stripping nonsense.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Hydraulic disc brake.

Aha.

 

[Drago]

May I introduce you to Shimano hydraulics? None of that stripping nonsense.

SLX on on one my MTBs, and one stopped working mysteriously at 4 years. Bleeding etc wouldn't fix it, and my contact at the LBS had no joy either. Fortunately. EBay produced a NS lever assembly, but it was a right royal PITA. Hence my Pace will be BB5s or 7s when In finish the build.

 

[jowwy]

I would go for discs, but only if you can afford/live with hydraulic calipers. Cable-actuated disc brakes are very poor as you've noted. Hydraulic brakes are low-maintenance and self-adjusting with pad wear whereas cable brakes are the opposite. With hydraulic disc brakes you can also swap between resin and metal pads - provided the discs can handle both and you've done the proper bed-in procedure during swapping. This gives you access to two completely different modes of brake operation. Resin is nice for slow action and gentle, squeal-free riding whereas metal pads operate best under severe conditions. On road bike riding I would class severe conditions as mountain riding and loaded touring. Peloton riding is fine with resin brakes.
Don't expect better stopping with (good) disc brakes than with good rim brakes. Stopping cannot be improved on what we already have because the limiting factor is not brake force but overturning momentum. In other words, the bike does an endo long before the brakes are even biting as much as they can.

i have bolded, underlined and italiced your comment around cable operated discs being poor.........explain this comment??

jagwire outers is what i stated as they are compressionless, other outers such as clarkes and shimano.....are of a compressioness ilk, but are in now way as good, as proper quality compressionless outers from the likes of jagwire..................

i would also go along with comments just posted by @ianrauk if changing cables and pads once a year is a bit onirus on you, maybe your in the wrong sport/job of cycling.........not everyone shares your views on everything, just accept that and move on

 

[DRHysted]

Disc convert here

 

[raleighnut]

Aha.

What's a Norwegian band got to do with brakes.

View: https://youtu.be/a3ir9HC9vYg

 

[jowwy]

I'm not sure what a disc brake machine is, the discussion is around bicycles. Compressionless outers....you'll find that all brake cable housings are of the so-called compressionless variety, so there's no danger that someone may have tried the non-compressionless type and found them lacking.
Jagwire cables are particularly poor - especially the teflon coated ones, for reasons described on this forum many times. I would not recommend those to anyone.

Stopping on a dime. I assume metaphor here and that I will overlook. However, the implication that they perhaps stop quicker than other types of brakes needs to be challenged. The brakes are NOT the weak link and for that reason all bikes of reasonable quality can stop on a dime, or penny or cent, whatever your currency.

There is no question that hydraulic brakes require less maintenance than cable brakes. Cables have to be replaced and adjusted as the pads wear down. Hydraulics, not. The rotating mechanism in the mechanical caliper requires routine maintenance, hydraulic calipers less o.

I don't think anyone mentioned set-up, so you are building a straw man there.




I was hoping the person that inspired that reply of yours was attempting sarcasm, which doesn't require a reply or acknowledgement.



It will boil down to semantics. I'm sure you don't consider cable replacement and regular pad adjustment a problem. I would just prefer not to do it at all. Further, there really is no comparison for the smooth feel of hydraulic vs cable - in my eyes in anyway.

disc brake machine = bike, bicyle, cycle..........whichever maybe used

i have again highlighted your comment.........never assume someone is attempting anything, especially on a forum were lots of pish is banter about constantly and were people do pressume that disc brake bikes are heavier

 

[Adam4868]

My son has a cable,disc mountain bike that really does take some abuse ! Never really had any problems with it in the past few years of owning.Me never had discs on a road bike and rim brakes seem good enough for me.But I wouldn't rule that out if buying again

 

[HarryTheDog]

My next road bike for commuting will be disc, around xmas I had to scrap 3 wheels as the rims had gone concave through wear. Far simpler/cheaper to replace a rotor. The wheels were around 1-2 years old. I must have gone through 4 or 5 rear wheels and 3 fronts over a 8 yr period on the same bike. When I sold my 5 yr old MTB it was still on original disc braked wheels.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

i have bolded, underlined and italiced your comment around cable operated discs being poor.........explain this comment??

No need for a question mark, or a double one for that matter, after a statement. Or fancy typography, for that matter.

You may as well badger the OP for his similar statement but since you've addressed me, here goes.

I have made my points re cables and you don't seem to accept them. That's fine.

By moving the cable anchor point down at the hub instead of at the top of the wheel, you considerably lengthen the cable and increase its friction. This can easily be felt just by pulling the brakes of an ordinary rim-brake bike after a few months of use when the cables have abraded internally. The back one is markedly stickier, mostly due to its extra length. With cable discs the problem is exacerbated. The problem is particularly problematic on tandems with a disproportionately long rear cable. You can decide for yourself how much.

Secondly, rim brake levers are designed with a different mechanical advantage in mind that that for disc brakes. Disc brakes require much more force than rim brakes because of the harder pads, smaller torque lever of the disc and the disc's low coefficient of friction. This limits the practical use of pads to resin. Yes, you can fit metal pads in there but you will not get good performance from them. For loaded touring and mountain-pass riding, resin is the second-best choice in a field of just two. It requires the force generated by hydraulic calipers to properly bring the benefits of metal pads to the fore. These are numerous and have been discussed here ad infinitum.

Mechanical disc brakes advance the pad from one side only, relying on disc flex to reach the opposite pad. This requires exact setup that changes rapidly with pad wear.

Having said that, I suppose mechanical discs are fine for most people. I prefer hydraulic and I recommended hydraulic to the OP from a personal perspective based on reasons I've stated here many times and have now repeated.

jagwire outers is what i stated as they are compressionless, other outers such as clarkes and shimano.....are of a compressioness ilk, but are in now way as good, as proper quality compressionless outers from the likes of jagwire..................

I just don't understand this mumbo jumbo or yours. What is the difference between compressionless and compressionless ilk? What is now ways and how does it differ from recent ways or tomorrow ways?

i would also go along with comments just posted by @ianrauk if changing cables and pads once a year is a bit onirus on you, maybe your in the wrong sport/job of cycling.........not everyone shares your views on everything, just accept that and move on

Cheap shots won't make your point for you. What is this oniris animal anyway?

disc brake machine = bike, bicyle, cycle..........whichever maybe used

i have again highlighted your comment.........never assume someone is attempting anything, especially on a forum were lots of pish is banter about constantly and were people do pressume that disc brake bikes are heavier

I think your eloquence in argument speaks for itself.

 

[jowwy]

No need for a question mark, or a double one for that matter, after a statement. Or fancy typography, for that matter.

You may as well badger the OP for his similar statement but since you've addressed me, here goes.

I have made my points re cables and you don't seem to accept them. That's fine.

By moving the cable anchor point down at the hub instead of at the top of the wheel, you considerably lengthen the cable and increase its friction. This can easily be felt just by pulling the brakes of an ordinary rim-brake bike after a few months of use when the cables have abraded internally. The back one is markedly stickier, mostly due to its extra length. With cable discs the problem is exacerbated. The problem is particularly problematic on tandems with a disproportionately long rear cable. You can decide for yourself how much.

Secondly, rim brake levers are designed with a different mechanical advantage in mind that that for disc brakes. Disc brakes require much more force than rim brakes because of the harder pads, smaller torque lever of the disc and the disc's low coefficient of friction. This limits the practical use of pads to resin. Yes, you can fit metal pads in there but you will not get good performance from them. For loaded touring and mountain-pass riding, resin is the second-best choice in a field of just two. It requires the force generated by hydraulic calipers to properly bring the benefits of metal pads to the fore. These are numerous and have been discussed here ad infinitum.

Mechanical disc brakes advance the pad from one side only, relying on disc flex to reach the opposite pad. This requires exact setup that changes rapidly with pad wear.

Having said that, I suppose mechanical discs are fine for most people. I prefer hydraulic and I recommended hydraulic to the OP from a personal perspective based on reasons I've stated here many times and have now repeated.



I just don't understand this mumbo jumbo or yours. What is the difference between compressionless and compressionless ilk? What is now ways and how does it differ from recent ways or tomorrow ways?




Cheap shots won't make your point for you. What is this oniris animal anyway?



I think your eloquence in argument speaks for itself.

your arrogance in argument speaks for itself....................cable discs are no way inferior to hydraulic and i have not felt any increase in friction by running disc brakes. i have also never felt the need to pull harder on the levers due to a mechanical disadvantage. Also TRP spyre discs operate via a dual piston, so do Avid BB7s and advance the disc on both sides, so yet again your argument carries holes.

Maybe you need to read up on the different type of mechanical brakes that are now available before putting forward an argument full of holes that can be shown up so easily........

enjoy your reading

 

[S-Express]

What is this oniris animal anyway?

Egyptian god of the afterlife?

 

[S-Express]

Also, I'm tempted to say that jagwire stuff is shite, but that would probably result in a forum meltdown. So I'll just say it is no better than any other cable type, IMO. Only useful if you need cables in colours other than black or silver. Other than that, I would'nt choose it in preference to Shimano.