Discussion in 'Fixed Gear and Single Speed' started by Blonde, 28 Sep 2007.

  1. zimzum42

    zimzum42 Legendary Member

    For what it's worth, after hearing about flex in frames years ago, I tried watching the BB when climbing....

    Climb in a high gear o you're really having to push hard, and you can see the frame flex as you grind on the pedals.....

    I've never had an alu bike, so can't make any comparisons though......
  2. peejay78

    peejay78 Well-Known Member

    "imaginary benefits of them"

    eh? importance of rhythm and pacing yourself when climbing on a fixed (or any) bicycle? imaginary? ? have you ever ridden a bike up a hill, or ridden a bike?

    i didn't say offensive.

    "I just have quite a passionate desire to learn what people actually see in the whole weird/old bike thing but mixed with a certain cynical desire to shatter the myths they put forward as their reasoning for liking them."

    really? are you sure? what are you, some kind of Richard Dawkins protesting against the perceived mysticism of cycling? this duality sounds like it might be tearing you apart.

    "For instance, i don't understand why people are embarrassed to admit they only like some things purely because they're fashionable? I don't see anything wrong with fashion."

    no relevance to the OP at all. or anything else. totally off-topic. i'm out anyway.
  3. Chuffy

    Chuffy Veteran

    Ah. Dear old Bonj. If I get time tomorrow I'll be popping back to this thread, it's looking promising.

    I like my single-speed (it's a conversion and a thing of beauty. If I posted a picture it would burn the eyes of the fixie puristas to a jealous crisp) because it's simpler than having gears. It takes away all of my choices and I like that. Just spouting your standard ignoblather isn't shattering myths, it's just building a new one, the story of the Idiot Who Wouldn't Listen.
  4. bonj2

    bonj2 Guest

    But I'm just trying to imagine what actual distortion the bike's experiencing.
    Imagine you were really strong, and you had to produce the same shape change in the bike when it was still to what it does when you go over the ridges on that corner. Would it be standing to the side of it, putting one knee on the top tube and one on the down tube and pulling the headtube and rear dropout towards you, i.e. as if the bike's curving with the corner? Would it be to hold the rear dropout and have an accomplice holding the headtube and both pull tug-of-war-style, i.e. as if the bike's 'stretching'? Would it be as if you're getting it underneath you with your knee on the top tube and pulling it up from front and back, making the whole thing more 'U' shaped? Or what?
    And also, what shape are the 'ridges' that cause this? Are they dips in the road i.e. concave, or rise above the surface i.e. convex? How long and tall/deep, and how far apart, are they?

    And you're sure it's not just that the ridges are producing vibration and the steel's better at absorbing them than the carbon/alu bike?
    Although to be honest it's a LOT more believable when you describe it as something that's like different shock absorption characteristics than 'the bike bends whenver I go round a corner'.

    Whether or not you respect the qualifications which i assume in order to comment on your original assertion, the only comment I made was to put it to you that your proposed advantages of fixed were not something you are able to qualify as tangible, therefore not something that requires the backup of such qualification. That you merely seek to question the qualification I assume (have I ridden a bike xx(), which isn't even necessary, confirms the validity of my comment.

    I'm trying to debate in real/literal/measurable/quantitative/tangible terms, but the above isn't possible to formulate a reasoned response to as it talks purely in fantasy/metaphorical terms.

    That's two down...

    Ah, now single speed. You see that confuses me. Because I don't know whether I have more or less of a problem with it than with fixed.
    The arguments for more, are......... erm.......I don't know. I don't think there are any.
    So therefore I have much less of a problem with single speed than with fixed, simply because by introducing a freehub you remove the element of danger, which is presumably what all the fixie brigade think makes them 'cool' - ("ooooh, he must be skilled, he's riding a fixed!, he must be able to 'tame the beast'! " :tongue:)
    But understand Chuffy that your single speed isn't a bike that just hasn't had gears put on. It's a bike that has had the gears deliberately taken off. That would be true even if it was a bike that just hasn't ever had gears put on. Bikes are supposed to have gears.

    Why don't you go one further, and completely remove the cranks, pedals, chainrings and chain? And just scoot it along, with your feet? You wouldn't go as fast, but then again you can't go as fast with a single speed as you can with gearing, so it's only relative. And you then really would be able to 'ride' it in pedestrian areas and on pavements, as you'd be walking by putting one foot in front of the other (and despite Arch's many attempts to define 'cycling', you would completely fit the definition of being a pedestrian, as you would have no method of propelling yourself plus bike other than the same as what a pedestrian does. Don't try and enter an argument with me about this because I will win.).

    Well why did you bother to convert it, why didn't you just sellotape the shifters up, if you don't like having to put up with the stress of the agonising decision of what gear to be in. That would remove your choices just as effectively. But you've still got the choice of which way to go at a junction, or even whether to ride your bike in the first place. In fact, better still, why didn't you just sellotape yourself to your bed then you wouldn't even have the choice of whether to get up. That really would remove all your choices, and then you'd have a really simple life as you wouldn't ever have to bother deciding anything.
    And the pure fact that it is simply the removal of choices is the reason I thought I might have more of a problem with it than fixed, as it's purely subtractive, it 'adds' nothing to the experience. But then I realise that the only thing that having it fixed adds is danger.

    Is that a new word, 'ignoblather'? :sad:

    Just another point, out of interest: would it be possible to have a fixed bike but with gears? i.e. with a rear mech, shifters and cassette, but no freehub? i.e. why are fixed bikes always also single speed bikes?
  5. Chuffy

    Chuffy Veteran

    Less is more.

  6. Fab Foodie

    Fab Foodie hanging-on in quiet desperation ...

  7. Chuffy

    Chuffy Veteran

    Ah. Thank you for the explanation. Otherwise I might have completely forgotten that it was me who took the gears off. xx(
    Where is it written that bikes are supposed to have gears? Eh? Go on, show me where.
    KAPOW! <blows smoke from imaginary pistol>
    One down....:sad:

    No, you lost the last time and there's no point resurrecting the corpse of that argument.
    Another one....:blush:

    Because that would be very, very ugly and impractical. Besides, I converted him because the shifter (old, second hand) and rear mech were shot. The conversion was cheaper than buying new shifters and mech.

    It is now, and all because of you. :tongue:

    Simplicity. You could make one as described, but why would you?
  8. zimzum42

    zimzum42 Legendary Member

    You can't make a fixed bike with gears.

    No gear system can cope with the pressure when you're leg braking, especially not derraileurs....

    But I wouldn't expect bonj to know this, cos he doesn't seem to know much about bikes

    Still, there's some good haters battiling it out in this thread, I'll let him get on with the hating!
  9. bonj2

    bonj2 Guest

    Because they all do. Apart from the ones that have had them deliberately taken off, obviously.

    Don't you know anything, Chuffy? :sad: xx( About a couple of years ago in a past job I was having to write test scripts for a piece of software. This is so that tests can be carried out to make sure the software does what it's supposed to do. How do I, as a mere author of the software, even know what it's supposed to do? Well, that's obvious. Just see what it currently does do, and whatever that is, that's what it's obviously supposed to do.

    There's a rule somewhere that states that "in the absence of a strict and formally defined rule, then what something is supposed to do, exhibit, or have, is basically the same as what it currently does do, exhibit, or have."

    I'm not going to tell you what that software was for.

    er... no. By removing the cranks and pedals, you would probably go just as fast (you wouldn't have the benefit of cranks, but you'd be lighter) but also would be legally classed as a pedestrian.
    <Neil Fox's voice> That's scientific fact. There's no actual evidence for it, but it is scientific fact. </Neil Fox's voice> :biggrin:

    Well, for the same reason you'd make a fixie without gears. What if I want the benefit fashionableness of riding fixed but want to be able to go up and down hils aswell?

    Well it can cope with the pressure of the chain going forward, so why can't it cope with less pressure going backwards?
    Anyhow, you wouldn't even need to bother with leg braking, you could just, heaven forbid - novel idea here, use normal brakes?
    Has anyone ever tried it? Or would that mean that it wouldn't look like a traditional fixie, therefore wouldn't achieve the main only benefit of being a fixie, i.e. fashion?
  10. peejay78

    peejay78 Well-Known Member

    "I'm trying to debate in real/literal/measurable/quantitative/tangible terms, but the above isn't possible to formulate a reasoned response to as it talks purely in fantasy/metaphorical terms."

    you're the only person who believes this. that either makes you a misunderstood genius or an idiot-savant, without the savant. i'm leaning towards the latter.

    the reason you espouse your views so very forcefully is not because you have brain, but because you have a tiny evolutionary remnant of a brain that tells you that you have a brain. this is what makes you dangerous, typically male, and rather horrid.

    can you go back to commuting now where you belong.
  11. bonj2

    bonj2 Guest

    'dangerous' and 'rather horrid', oh do get over yourself! It's only a bit of fun!
    Do YOU enjoy riding your fixie peejay?
    Then you shouldn't have a problem with it then should you. It should be water off a duck's back, because you know you're right.
    You can diss my big bouncy heavy MTB with its tractor tyres and my constant obsession with fiddling with the umpteen unnecessary gears and the unnecessary suspension, or my sub-£500 road bike with its girly flat handlebars and its MTB pedals, all you want - and it won't bother me one bit because I enjoy riding them.

    thought you were giving up on this thread:
    can't resist sticking your oar in again...?
    Honestly mate, if I really have hurt your feelings then I genuinely am sorry. But I just don't see how that should be possible if you've got any sort of conviction in what you do/say/ride? Perhaps you can give me a list of words that I'm not allowed to mention when talking about fixed bikes?

    Ah, but you see the problem is that I've discovered this wonderful little thing called the 'new posts' link, which brings in posts from all the sections.
  12. peejay78

    peejay78 Well-Known Member

    it's clever the new posts thing.
  13. BringMeMyFix

    BringMeMyFix New Member

    Unlike Bonj.
  14. hichakhok

    hichakhok New Member

    I must say sometimes it is alarming (though in reality perfectly safe)to see frames flex on steel fixed gear bikes. On an average london road you can really see the chain slacking and jumping around even on bikes with a tight chain. Gives me the willies.When i was fitter and rode 50 16 i used to feel the bike really bend when i pulled away from the lights.

    (I remember this Bonj character from another forum. He had no idea that fixed gear bikes are used on the track and thought they were a Victorian fashion throwback. Has he got round to boasting about being a computer software genius yet?)
  15. bonj2

    bonj2 Guest

    absolute guff, every word of it. sorry. go back to acf.
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