GrumpyGregry
Here for rides.
what makes folk 'want' a 4x4?
Do people like me give cyclists a bad name? If so, sorry
- Thread starter Schooner
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Linford
Guest
Whilst I can't speak for others, I don't really see the justification for judging them without being in the possession of the facts - or entirely wise. What is it they say about a little bit of knowledge?
I've only ever personally seen the need to own a 4x4 for utilitarian purposes. You obviously know your cars so you appreciate that if your requirement is to drag a 2 tonne load in and out of a muddy field, you won't do it with a Mondeo - that is a good enough reason for me, and the original reason which made me decide what my requirement was (something with 4wd and weighing at least 2.2 tonnes
) Mine is beginning to go back up in value now it is 20 years old, and I burnt the overdrive out in 30k miles of ownership through its primary job (over 9 years) - so the car is a workhorse, not a daily drive with that mileage so not destroying the planet , has more mud on the inside than the outside and I doubt ever had knicker elastic snapping ability on the value of its original sale price. Sure I've done a bit of green laning with it, and will go and play in the snow - why not, it is only the cost of the fuel, the rest of ownership is astronomical for the miles covered each year.If I wanted to go and play in the mud and no other reason, I'd go and buy an old SWB Vitara or an SJ which I'd not be fussed about bending in half on a tree stump and put back together for sensible money with good access to spares - I'd not consider a Landrover. I've seen too many of them go wrong when out on the lanes, and pay and play sites.
Talking about touching nerves - I think it fair to say yours are positively jangling about this 4x4 ownership thing. The bloke in the ML was a bit of a cock, but then that can usually be said for the majority of owners of large Mercs or any other top end luxury brand. I've got a Bentley and Aston Martin dealership just up the road from me - I'll bet that can be said for 9 out of 10 of the people who walk through the door - or that is what we want to believe to make us feel better
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
A company car is the best 4x4 by far. :P
GrumpyGregry
Here for rides.
Fact. I was offed by a SMIDSY in a 4x4 between Xtmas and New Year who then tried to drive away as they were in a hurry to get to the office...
Fact. The last 4x4 I reported to operation crackdown was being driven by a driver to whom the police had previous cause to speak to (quote)...
Fact. The last vehicle to make contact with my person during a close pass was a 4x4...
Fact. The last vehicle to cut across me on the pair of mini-roundabouts near the office was a 4x4 driven by someone using their mobile...
Fact. The last child's funeral I went to was that of a little girl killed by a speeding 4x4...
Yep. My nerves are jangled by wankpanzers alright, but not through lack of knowledge of 'em. They have no place on our roads imo.
(utility 4x4's are a totally different matter)
Linford
Guest
I hear an echo here Greg.
I'm fortunate to say that I've never had to attend the funeral of a small child, so condolances if you were close to her.
In regard to the other instances you have quoted (apart from being offed), I can relate to, but by regular cars.
Do you honestly think that these people who's behaviour you have quoted will behave any differently because they change their car ?
You aren't offering instances of bad vehicles, but bad drivers, and I realistiallly don't know of anyone who had only ever driven a 4x4.
Yes they don't handle as well as regular cars, yes they are by and large more thirsty, but owning a regular car as well as a 4x4, I honestly can say that I drive the 4x4 with more care and consideration - you have no choice but to respect the mass of it and the thing is notably cheaper to insure than the regular car - so what does that say about perceived and actual risk ?
GrumpyGregry
Here for rides.
I may be a dumb as a dumb thing but my honest answer is 'yes'.
bad driver + large 'bad' vehicle which insulates them from the real world = accident waiting to happen. In the case of the close pass on a single track road, a smaller car would not have got within my comfort zone let alone touched me.... the 'panzer driver's sense of entitlement urged them to get past at all costs...
Full credit to you. On the odd occasion I drive a 4wd (shock horror yes it does happen) I'm the same. My experience of non-panzer utility 4x4's is they are generally driven the same way as you drive.
Indeed (I don't mean the dumb thing). It's stranger, in my view, to assume people drive/behave the same way in different vehicles. Do you ride the same way on a bmx, an mtb, a road bike and a shopper with a basket on the front?
Linfy, I seem to remember that I've had to point this out before, and it's slightly OT, but viewing masturbation purely as a substitute for sexual intercourse betrays a poverty of sexual imagination.
Linford
Guest
Actually a recent conflict of note was in my regular car HERE (this was the drivers eye view). As the cars were parked on the far side, I had right of way, and a was making my way along there. A car came fro the other way, and insead of waiting behind the last parked car at the end of the row, decided to plough on though. I stopped at this point and the woman stopped in front of me. Now rather than reverse back to let me through, she just put her foot down and banged on through clipping the mirrors.
She was driving a Fiesta. She and I had fully stopped, and then she made the conscious decision to gun it. She didn't stop after connecting, she just vanished. Another instance, last year, I was parked up on the side of the road, and was leaning into the back of my regular car again to strap my grandaughter in, a couple of cars come past, and then a gap (I was the obstruction along with another couple of cars parked in front of me), she came past too close and clipped the car door with first her mirror and as that then pulled it fully open, with her car door. She was driving a Megane convertible - that cost her insurance company about £5k in hire car charges alone for a very nice C-class merc whilst mine was in the menders (I don't really agree with the way the insurance firms operate, but mine was unsafe to put a small child in after the door was damaged, and they have you over a barrel on all sides once they get going if liability cannot be refuted)
More recently, an idiot got a bit of road rage when I was in the 4x4, he lost his cool after trying unsuccessfully to squeeze me out at a pinch point which I had right of way on (as he was in the outside lane), and then he tried to overtake me as I was turning into a side road a few hundred yards up(he tried to follow me in and overtake me on the entrance). as a car was emerging from the side road, he was entering it on the wrong side, and so I dab the brakes and he ends up running into the back of mine. Not a mark on mine, but his was dented a bit It wasn't even his van - he borrowed it off a mate to do a removal - who loses their rag in someone elses vehicle. Police turned up and they told him he shouldn't have been so close - or trying to overtake in such a dangerous and reckless manner into a side road ???
I can go on, but we can all quote instances of bad driving by other road users driving other vehicles to suit our argument, but you get the idea and none I had an argument with were other 4x4's!
I've ridden all of the above with the exception of a BMX. My posture changes but I still have the same head on my shoulders. My behaviour in traffic is pretty much the same. I take the point, but I wouldn't apply it here.
I usually drive one of three cars: Diesel MPV, petrol econobox, 1961 Italian roadster.
The MPV lobbles along off the top of its torque curve and I have a jolly good view. A big, lazy bus.
The econobox is thrashy and frenetic. It does the same speeds everywhere as the MPV, but makes more fuss about achieving them.
The roadster is driven more slowly and the gearbox is used more (60s brakes and a lovely note on the overrun).
Three very different cars driven differently, it's true. However, all are positioned similarly on the road. All give the same amount of room to other road users. All slow similarly for junctions and hazards. All have been known to do 70 in a 60. Any fault, skill or weakness I show in one is evident in all the others.
The roadster only one mirror (on the dash) so I look around more when I drive it. But the nature of the driver is constant.
When I'm on my in-laws' farm in Wales I hope I have the same head on when I drive their Fourtrak or their tractor. I'm still me whatever I drive, for better or worse.
(The one instance I've seen of character following vehicle type was when I had a motorcycle that I set up for the track (late 80s). It was very lumpy low down and sounded so glorious at full chat that I was inclined to open it up when I shouldn't. But that was the exception, not the rule and it was SIGNIFICANTLY different to ride. I ended up putting it back in road tune.)
Linford
Guest
Or a lack of participants will to indulge in mutual gratification Claudine
Little yellow Brompton
A dark destroyer of biscuits!
- Location
- Bridgend
Yes, I'm suprised that you haven't considered this.
How boring. A bmx would obviously be wasted on you. And Bill Shannon on a skateboard would make your head explode. I'm not only a lot faster on a road bike, but I'm notably more "vehicular" in my behaviour, and more law-abiding, than when on an mtb. The vehicular thing is related to speed, of course, but not merely a reflection of it.
Linford
Guest
Well, yes, actually, thinking about it, you/Greg are right, My 4x4 isn't a quick or sharp handling car and I respect its limitations so it slows me right down to the point I regulary get tailgated or overtaken as it is 0-60 in about 25 seconds. The regular car is only a 1.6 so no real performance there either but it is easy to drive it a lot more briskly with a lot less effort, and then I have the m/bike
