Do the specifications to which bikes are made for pro racing hinder the development of cycling machi

[Cyclopathic]

Exactly.
ABS was first used in aircraft in the 30s and in some road cars in the 60s, long before it was used in F1. Paddle gear shifts are useful in F1 due to the frequency with which they have to change gear - I'm not sure, never having driven one, if they have any practical use in an ordinary car or if they are ever likely to become mainstream.

If F1 technology trickled down to everyday cars then the major manufacturers would all be running race teams. Those that do, or who sponsor teams with the same name, do so for advertising purposes.

It has always been my understanding that the technology did get adapted for everyday use, at least where apropriate. I have no hard evidence for this and my assumption is only based on things I have heard whilst watching F1 on telly and other informal sources so of courrse I may be mistaken or have got things out of perspective. Nevertheless it sounds like a reasonable course of events.
I wonder how it is that you are so sure that none of the advances made in F1 are not passed down the line in some way. Bearing in mind that the discoveries and progress made bythe research teams is bound to cover a very wide range of issues from entire components to marterials and safety features. Or shall I just take your word for it?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

It has always been my understanding that the technology did get adapted for everyday use, at least where apropriate. I have no hard evidence for this and my assumption is only based on things I have heard whilst watching F1 on telly and other informal sources so of courrse I may be mistaken or have got things out of perspective. Nevertheless it sounds like a reasonable course of events.
I wonder how it is that you are so sure that none of the advances made in F1 are not passed down the line in some way. Bearing in mind that the discoveries and progress made bythe research teams is bound to cover a very wide range of issues from entire components to marterials and safety features. Or shall I just take your word for it?

That was my understanding as well. Maybe all the motoring journalists have it wrong?

 

[Mr Celine]

..... Or shall I just take your word for it?

Of course not. Have a look on the internet and see if you can find anything first invented in F1 that is used in everyday cars.

Back on topic, innovations in pro racing bikes do filter down to more everyday machinery. Carbon fibre bikes and F1 cars appeared at about the same time. My everyday car does not have any carbon fibre in it, my everyday bike is made of the stuff.

 

[Norm]

flappy paddle gearboxes?

On an 'every day road car'?

you can get them as options on volkswagon, citroen, fiat not exactly premium brands

And the Smart car, Ford Focus, Skoda Fabia.... some real aspirational vehicles in that list.

Flappy paddles of the DSG variety were first used, IIRC, on the Porsche 962 in the late 1980s, and translated to the PDK gearboxes of the early 1990s. Which weren't very pleasant.

 

[dellzeqq]

A KIrk Precision. Interesting idea but horrible execution. Heavy, poor lateral strength, lousy ride, frames breaking a lot. Wonder why they never caught on? Best place, in the loft.
Tubes - inherently strong, light, can be built for excellent lateral resistance (so the bracket does not move under serious pressure, comfortable. What's not to like?

yes, and then again, no. You're right - the Kirk is a ghastly ride. But a Spesh Ruby or Roubaix is a monocoque, basically variable ovals in one seamless construction, and it is a fabulous frame. Better, dare I say, than any tubed frame.

 

[400bhp]

Probably more technological developments come from saloon car racing & rallying.

F1 is far removed from road cars.

I wonder if there's a better solution to the open gear/chain mech on bikes?

 

[MacB]

Probably more technological developments come from saloon car racing & rallying.

F1 is far removed from road cars.

I wonder if there's a better solution to the open gear/chain mech on bikes?

hub gears, drum brakes and a Gates carbon belt drive, if we're talking protection from the elements, longevity of parts and limited exposed externals.

 

[fossyant]

On an 'every day road car'?

Yes.

Had one on an Alfa 147 back in 2000 - Selespeed. Semi auto, - you could drive it as a auto, but also as a manual. No clutch, but you picked the gear by the paddles.

 

[400bhp]

hub gears, drum brakes and a Gates carbon belt drive, if we're talking protection from the elements, longevity of parts and limited exposed externals.

No, I'm talking as good efficiency/weight as the current standard, plus protection from elements etc.

 

[MacB]

No, I'm talking as good efficiency/weight as the current standard, plus protection from elements etc.

So am I I reckon the design is pretty much there and the technology exists to get the weight right...but the market isn't there and I can't imagine the industry having any desire to create that market. No need for cassettes, belt life far longer than chains, chainwheel/sprocket life almost limitless, fancy lubes not needed(assuming they are anyway), much longer brake/pad life.

I mean if we're talking trickle down development should we look at what's on high end motorbikes?

I cede you the point in weight, though it's a surprisingly small difference when added up, I reckon they could actually hit the pro bike weight limit with hub gears and disc brakes right now.

Efficiency is a different can of worms, I'm sure a hub gear would compare poorly to a top end pro bike, but how about the average persons derailleur bike? Also you did ask about replacing chains and the belt drives have done so in many other areas, but they'll never work with a deraileur system.

 

[Licramite]

I think the limitations professional sports put on competitive bikes does limit the development of bike design. the basic bike drive has changed little in capacity since the late 1800s when the safety bike was first designed. Only by pushing the boundaries of conventional design do we innovate. Aerobars were hotly debated before becoming normal. - I wonder what would have happened if the racing fraternity had band them. - chances are they would have disappeared.
I don't see bike design changing much until we redesign the power element, aircraft were the same, they changed only because engine design forced a change in airframe deign.
The basic pedal / chain drive is a highly undeveloped area, but if you turned up at a race with say a double chain ring system (as on the high speed bike that set the world record for upright bikes ) would you be allowed to use it?

 

[Davidc]

IM[not very humble]O the UCI have, by their restrictive design criteria, held back development and inhibited innovation for decades.

The classic examples are recumbent bikes, disc brakes on road bikes, and limiting of efforts to reduce weight. There are more.

This isn't the only area where UCI has shown it isn't fit for purpose. Sadly I see little hope of improvement.

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

Of course not. Have a look on the internet and see if you can find anything first invented in F1 that is used in everyday cars.

Back on topic, innovations in pro racing bikes do filter down to more everyday machinery. Carbon fibre bikes and F1 cars appeared at about the same time. My everyday car does not have any carbon fibre in it, my everyday bike is made of the stuff.

the new Mazda 6 contains a energy recovery technology based around KERS used in F1 which is called I-ELOOP and features a capacitor (think that's an every day car and a current F1 technology)

The first full carbon fibre F1 car was the Mclaren MP4/1 in 1981 while the first carbon bike was seen in 1986 from Kestrel who produced a bike with no lugs and Trek who produced a carbon frame with lugs.. There was five year difference which is a large period of time in respect to the development rates of both F1 and cycle design.

 

[SWSteve]

The idea that f1 is the pinnacle of 4 wheeled motorsport is a bit ignorant, I imagine that sports cars/indy/nascar will have had a large impact as well.
The development of more efficient and powerful engines through the way the piston heads are manufactured and engines bored will have worked its way into modern day road cars by now. Others I can imagine will have happened in motorsport and then ended up on the road:

Better tyre design + structure: displacing more water+better grip
Traction control
Development of turbos - leading to better fuel efficency/power ratio

McLaren Applied Technology probably has a lot more to do with electronics in and out of cars than noted

 

[TheJDog]

Recumbents aren't practical. I can carry all my bikes up a flight of stairs very easily (and do so every day). I can see well when I'm on it, and be seen. The safety bicycle is fundamentally a cheaper (no huge chain arrangement), lighter, smaller (handy in my one bed flat, in which i currently have 3 bikes) design than the recumbent. Recumbents are always going to be a niche product. Like for speed records.