Do we not deserve our bad rep?

[BentMikey]

Perhaps Lee's point is that drivers hate us anyway, and that the whole RLJing thing is just the easiest stick with which to beat us? tdr1nka's point is that drivers hate us because of RLJing, and treat us badly as a result.

Personally, I think it's somewhere between these two extremes, and that most of the problem is that we're seen as an alien tribe, not part of humanity.

 

[tdr1nka]

But a lot of us are intelligent not to think 'all' drivers hate us and know this not to be the case, just that a lot of motorists who like to make a point about why they hate cyclists in general, experience of RLJ-ing, non light carrying pavement riding cyclists is where we lose a lot of respect. IMO.

 

[Zorg]

I had the very same conversation with the Mayor and Mrs Mayor of Southampton during an event to promote cycling.


'Ooooh they are a danger etc'.

I put them right.

That made me laugh.

 

[dondare]

...the presence of green paint....

Sounds really bad

Fixed.

 

[dondare]

If, when cycling, you decide that you're much to wise and important to worry about trifles such as obeying the law; then you are going to appear to everyone as an antisocial, ignorant, arrogant cyclist. Your attitude affects the way you behave and that affects the way people perceive you and that affects their attitude towards you and that affects their behaviour towards you. Unfortunately if enough cyclists behave in the same antisocial, ignorant, arrogant way then the rest of us get treated the same way too.
I do not expect habitual offenders to admit that this is true, any more than I'd expect a mobile 'phoning motorist to admit that he's a bigger danger than someone who concentrates on their driving, or a habitual speeder to accept that they should slow down.

 

[tdr1nka]

Thank you for patronising me.

It is entirely your choice to perceive my comments thus, these are only my opinions after all.

 

[rog]

i think as cyclists, we have always been treated as 'second class' when it comes to sharing the road with motorists. this results in dangerous or intimidating behaviour which was largely due to a lack of respect or consideration i.e. they dont appreciate what it is like to ride or commute by bike. if they did, maybe they would (hopefully) have a different opinion.

what's changed is that this 'behaviour' has now become somehow 'justifiable' in the mind's of other road users because cyclists dont obey the rules or are anti-social. we have become an easy target, which can be seen in the media attention which cycling stories now generate.

this perception (or bad rep) has arisen due to the increase in the number of cyclists who are now on the road, and as such, an increase in the number of people who ignore the rules, laws or common courtesy.

i dont remember there being endless articles or debates about red light jumping or pavement cycling 2 years ago - probably because it was a relatively infrequent occurance...or simply less visible.

however, we cant just ignore it. it wont go away all by itself...

 

[tdr1nka]

Thank you for patronising me. You remind of me of cab, another mod who's a complete and utter twat.

I could go on about my experience if you want to go down that road.

I had to wait until you finished editing your previous post again in order to reply to the extra bits.

Just so you don't get too low an opinion of me, when I mentioned 'years of actual experience' I should have said 'years of accumulated experience' meaning the experiences cited, not just by myself, but of other forummers on this thread who's comments I was simply echoing.

 

[swee'pea99]

i think as cyclists, we have always been treated as 'second class' when it comes to sharing the road with motorists. this results in dangerous or intimidating behaviour which was largely due to a lack of respect or consideration i.e. they dont appreciate what it is like to ride or commute by bike. if they did, maybe they would (hopefully) have a different opinion.

what's changed is that this 'behaviour' has now become somehow 'justifiable' in the mind's of other road users

Well you did at least put the 'justifiable' in quote marks.

It's all crap anyway. Two basics: one, 'they' don't all hate us. Most of 'them' don't give a crap one way or another. I for one have never been buttonholed by bores at parties challenging me about RLJ-ing. And two, those that do don't hate us 'cos we RLJ; they hate us because we overtake them/don't pay taxes/get in their way/appear to be actually enjoying ourselves.

If you want to placate these twats/scumbags by commiserating over the behaviour of 'law-breaking cyclists' (thereby, in my view, helping 'justify' their baseless - and dangerous/lethal - brand of self-righteousness), go for it. For myself, should I ever encounter any, I'll ask them if they always stay below 70 on the motorway.

Then we can have a discussion about the relative consequences of 'their type' of breaking the law and mine.

 

[tdr1nka]

For the record I have not commiserated over the behaviour of 'Law Breaking Cyclists' with anyone besides other cyclists.

In fact I'm more likely to joke sadly that it has taken cyclists taking the law into their own hands in order to be acknowledged at all by the average idiot motorist.

 

[HF2300]

I'm not even convinced about this. I think there are a lot of good guys out on the roads in / on any type of vehicle, and a lot of bad guys. I think the bad guys have an attitude towards any vehicle; I suspect that those that are shouting F-ing RLJers, F-ing non-taxpayers etc. are also shouting F-ing buses, F-ing woman drivers etc.

It's just that cyclists notice it because we're vulnerable, out in the open and we can hear what's being shouted. I also think that many discussions on cycling forums re-inforce the siege mentality. That's not to say the discussions shouldn't be had.

 

[summerdays]

I think if the motorist is sitting in a huge gridlock, getting frustrated anyway, then when they see a cyclist go past then it adds to that frustration for some. Then they think of all the reasons that cyclists are "bad" and forget that if that cyclist wasn't there but got in a car instead then they would add another car to that gridlock.

That is not to say that all motorists think that way - I've had really nice motorists who get pull over to give me more space to get by as they are sitting in the gridlock.

So there are bad apples in all the groups on the road though it may be that in London the RLJ's are becoming more the norm.

 

[dondare]

My point is that driver attitude and the way that people actually drive are two seperate issues. While people may berate tdr1nka at the parties that he goes to. I'm sure that they are not like this when they actually come to dealing with a cyclist when they are out driving.

You don't think attitudes determine behaviour? My observation, and that of other posters here (and on other forums, message boards and so on) is that they way people regard cyclists is entirely consistant with the way people behave towards cyclists when they're driving. And the way people regard cyclists is as a bunch of ill-mannered oafs who are careless of their own safety and ignorant of the law.

 

[bryce]

If, when cycling, you decide that you're much to wise and important to worry about trifles such as obeying the law; then you are going to appear to everyone as an antisocial, ignorant, arrogant cyclist. Your attitude affects the way you behave and that affects the way people perceive you and that affects their attitude towards you and that affects their behaviour towards you. Unfortunately if enough cyclists behave in the same antisocial, ignorant, arrogant way then the rest of us get treated the same way too.
I do not expect habitual offenders to admit that this is true, any more than I'd expect a mobile 'phoning motorist to admit that he's a bigger danger than someone who concentrates on their driving, or a habitual speeder to accept that they should slow down.

Spot on.

I've said it in other posts. The types of cyclists that RLJ will never admit that it's dangerous or stupid. They will try to justify it by arguing that 'they've never had had an accident RLJing'. A bit like driving at 100mph outside a school. Irresponsible idiocy.

I would counter and ask them whether they would still RLJ if their son/ mother (as appropriate) was cycling with them. Of course they wouldn't. It's a selfish act and one that impressionable others behind follow mindlessly. Guilty on two fronts.

And if you do cause an accident, everyone will pick on you, justifiably. I would wholeheartedly.

+ can we all ignore/ blacklist the troll please.

 

[BentMikey]

The problem is that Lee can't admit that RLJing and other bad cyclist behaviour has any effect on drivers, because that would be admitting he has some part to play in the anger some drivers feel towards cyclists.