Do we not deserve our bad rep?

[dondare]

That's not my point at all, my point is that there are far bigger worries out on the British roads today then cyclists RLJing. The amount of bad driving I see every day from other motorists far far outweighs a cyclist RLJing

There are a lot of more important things that they should worry about. But it would seem that RLJing cyclists really are at the top of people's hate list. Check out this site:
http://www.togetherforlondon.org/campaignLanding.php
yes I know it's laughable but that doesn't stop it being an indicator of how people feel.
See what their no. one concern really is. Perhaps you'll be surprised.

 

[dondare]

Again this is a persons opinion on what they would like to see.

Currently it's 191 people's opnion. Not a huge number, but more than any other issue on the site.

I would like to see another poll on how many people feel annoyed and want to get their own back when they are driving on all the cyclists out there who RLJ, cycle without lights, etc.

You could start one. But if you did look at other messageboards that are associated with newspapers you would see that passions do run high and both columnists and letter-writers have indicated that they would be prepared to use violence against cyclists or even have done so in the past.

 

[dondare]

[quote name='swee'pea99']Never met a speedophile, to the best of my knowledge. How do their arguments go?[/QUOTE]


I take it then that you were never part of the infamous debates that occurred on various forum sites when Paul Smith was arguing that speeding motorists were safer than law-abiding ones and that cyclists who thought otherwise were self-deluding propaganga-swallowing trouble-makers.

(Don't get me started....)

 

[dondare]

Start one then. I dare you.

But you'll have to go to the most appropriate place. Somewhere inhabited by the angry drivers that would use bikes RLJing as an excuse for their behaviour. Try safespeed.

Pah! Beat me to it.

 

[tdr1nka]

Did someone call me a Cab?

 

[HF2300]

OK, you're a cab!

 

[BentMikey]

Here's your coat, Lee, tdr1nka's got your cab...

 

[ferret fur]

Again you are talking about an opinion, saying and doing. Two completley seperate things.

Ok then. Where is your evidence for this? ie You need to show that when people say that they are pissed off with cyclists and then act like they are pissed of with cyclists, these two things are just coincidental & wholly unrelated.

 

[tdr1nka]

I've had driver shout at me while we waited at a red light, asking in a provocative manner, what I thought of some cyclist that had RLJ-ed in front of us to which I said, 'I'm waiting at the light, what do you think?'.

The driver replied, 'Well you're all a bunch of cn*ts.' and wheel spun away.

 

[swee'pea99]

I've had driver shout at me while we waited at a red light, asking in a provocative manner, what I thought of some cyclist that had RLJ-ed in front of us to which I said, 'I'm waiting at the light, what do you think?'.

The driver replied, 'Well you're all a bunch of cn*ts.' and wheel spun away.

I can't think of a better illustration of the points I made earlier, which I can't help noticing everyone has ignored. To whit:

Two basics: one, 'they' don't all hate us. Most of 'them' don't give a crap one way or another. I for one have never been buttonholed by bores at parties challenging me about RLJ-ing. And two, those that do don't hate us 'cos we RLJ; they hate us because we overtake them/don't pay taxes/get in their way/appear to be actually enjoying ourselves.

If you want to placate these twats/scumbags by commiserating over the behaviour of 'law-breaking cyclists' (thereby, in my view, helping 'justify' their baseless - and dangerous/lethal - brand of self-righteousness), go for it. For myself, should I ever encounter any, I'll ask them if they always stay below 70 on the motorway.

Then we can have a discussion about the relative consequences of 'their type' of breaking the law and mine.

I don't give a crap about drivers like the one you describe, or what they think about anything. I don't think their loathing has anything to do with RLJ-ing, nor do I think we do ourselves any favours by waiting at the lights or otherwise trying to ingratiate ourselves with them. There aren't that many of them; they are peanuts; nothing we do will change that.

Do you really think that if we were all good little cyclists and obeyed the law to the letter, people like that would stop think we were all 'a bunch of cn*ts'? You're kidding yourselves.

Simpering 'yes, isn't it terrible' merely encourages them in their malice and their spite. If you want to do that, that's your choice. Me, I'll pass.

 

[ferret fur]

Yes I do think if we all obeyed the law more obviously then a significant section of the public would change their attitudes. Clearly there are a minority who are anti-cyclist or who are just a*seholes. However the majority have their perception of what we are like coloured by the way some cyclists behave... and that is detrimental to all of us as cyclists and detrimental to the development of cycling.

 

[mickle]

eh? I'm saying that driver attitude and the way that drivers actually drive towards cyclists are two seperate things.

They are one and the same lee. You can't have one without the other.

 

[rog]

no, not at all. but I think a lot of other people would stop agreeing with them...

 

[mickle]

But when it comes down to it I find it highly unlikely that they would in anyway endanger the life of a cyclist just for the sheer hell of it.

Never ridden a bike in South London then?

You must be blessed. I once had an ambulance driver of all people deliberately cut me up. When I caught up with him and asked what the **** he thought he was doing he said that I hadn't indicated. Now I'd seen him coming up behind, pulled over onto a slip road to let him through and as I pulled back into the lane he quite deliberately ran me into the kerb. He apparently considered it perfectly acceptable to punish me for a perceived infraction of the law by risking my health and safety.

Now. Tell me that it wasn't dangerous driving and tell me that he didn't have a bad attitude towards cyclists.

 

[tdr1nka]

I've had driver shout at me while we waited at a red light, asking in a provocative manner, what I thought of some cyclist that had RLJ-ed in front of us to which I said, 'I'm waiting at the light, what do you think?'.

The driver replied, 'Well you're all a bunch of cn*ts.' and wheel spun away.

Ok, hows about you stop putting words in peoples mouths right now.

I don't for one minute believe that if every cyclist rode to the letter of the law all motorists would suddenly love cyclists, that's an impossiblity, obviously.
But the attitude of London motorists to RLJ-ing cyclists in London is becoming a major symptom of the problem in the attitudes both of motorists and cyclists which further degrades any possible understandings.