Does commuting wind you up?

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nickr

Über Member
Why do you think that? I mean, I can understand that you might have gotten that impression from experiences in your local area, but why think it's "incontrovertible" and general? I think studies have usually found similar rates of lawbreaking among both groups, which is unsurprising given there's a lot of overlap.

One kills far more than the other, though and it ain't the ones on bikes.

I don't need a study, I have evidence everyday. The other difference between dangers posed by motorists and those posed by cyclist are that things such as a close pass, or pulling out etc are usually just poor judgment. Riding on a pavement, going through red lights, riding fast between rows of traffic are deliberate actions. Granted cars kill more people than bikes, but that isn't what this thread is about.
 

Dan B

Disengaged member
Not seeing a distinction here. Being rubbish at estimating distances/speed vs genuinely not trying to estimate distances/speed, people in/on both modes of transport are guilty of both
 
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mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
I don't need a study, I have evidence everyday. The other difference between dangers posed by motorists and those posed by cyclist are that things such as a close pass, or pulling out etc are usually just poor judgment. Riding on a pavement, going through red lights, riding fast between rows of traffic are deliberate actions. Granted cars kill more people than bikes, but that isn't what this thread is about.
Ah anecdata. I see motorists driving on pavements and going through red lights on every trip into town. The main reason I don't see those if I ride away from town is that there are neither traffic lights nor pavements on most of the fens. I'm sure some motorists would drive fast between rows of traffic if it were physically possible. I think it's incontrovertible that motorists carry out similar deliberate lawbreaking acts when driving as when they're cycling.
 

nickr

Über Member
Ah anecdata. I see motorists driving on pavements and going through red lights on every trip into town.

I see motorist going through red lights just after they have changed, but not when they have been red for some considerable time as cyclists do and I can't remember see anyone driving on a pavement for more than a few yards.

Anecdotal data is entirely valid here as the sample rate of cars is huge and the number of cyclists comparatively few, yet proportion of stupid behavior is totally unbalanced.

Think "memorable stupidity". On my journey to work this morning I can think think of no specific motorist related idiocy. On the other hand, I was overtaken on the left by a helmetless, single speed racer who then swerved in front of me and overtook the car in front and continued his journey swerving in and out of the traffic. ( a normal day). I could list the memorable stupidity I've encountered this week, and as I have stated a disproportionate amount involves cyclists. I think unless you live in Trumpton or Camberwick Green this is pretty much what you would find in any town or city in the UK, but I bet even Mrs Honeyman rides on the pavement now that its become normal accepted behaviour.

Not seeing a distinction here. Being rubbish at estimating distances/speed vs genuinely not trying to estimate distances/speed, people in/on both modes of transport are guilty of both

Riding as described above/going through a red light, riding on the pavement are all very deliberate actions. A close pass/pulling out etc are often just crap driving.
 

nickr

Über Member
Just got back from my lunchtime walk around Chiswick.
1. Mountain bike bombing along pavement on Power road, no excuse it's a quiet road
2. Old guy on a bike cycling along pavement very busy with pedestrians outside Gunnersbury tube
3. Woman cycling on busy pavement inside Chiswick Business Park where there are very clear "no cycling signs"
4. Woman cycling on lawn to avoid pedestrians on busy pavement inside Chiswick Business Park where there are very clear "no cycling signs"

Each one is a deliberate, conscious action against clearly stated rules - not a matter of poor judgment.

I saw 6 cyclists in total, I was walking so can't comment on the motorists behaviour but I think it unlikely that a similar proportion were behaving so selfishly.

The reason this behaviour winds me up is not the danger, it's the public perception of cyclists and the and engendered lack of respect.
 
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I am Spartacus

Über Member
Location
N Staffs
This morning my velcro trouser strap wrapped itself into the chain, then into rear mech and nucleared my 105 rear mech. That wound me up, £25 for a replacement Tiagra!
 

Profpointy

Legendary Member
Just got back from my lunchtime walk around Chiswick.
1. Mountain bike bombing along pavement on Power road, no excuse it's a quiet road
2. Old guy on a bike cycling along pavement very busy with pedestrians outside Gunnersbury tube
3. Woman cycling on busy pavement inside Chiswick Business Park where there are very clear "no cycling signs"
4. Woman cycling on lawn to avoid pedestrians on busy pavement inside Chiswick Business Park where there are very clear "no cycling signs"

Each one is a deliberate, conscious action against clearly stated rules - not a matter of poor judgment.

I saw 6 cyclists in total, I was walking so can't comment on the motorists behaviour but I think it unlikely that a similar proportion were behaving so selfishly.

The reason this behaviour winds me up is not the danger, it's the public perception of cyclists and the and engendered lack of respect.

Crap cycling = mild annoyance
Crap driving = 2000 dead per year
 

I am Spartacus

Über Member
Location
N Staffs
£25 ffs
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
I see motorist going through red lights just after they have changed, but not when they have been red for some considerable time as cyclists do and I can't remember see anyone driving on a pavement for more than a few yards.
The "just after they have changed" motorist RLJers are most common, but then you get the ones who keep on going when the lights have well and truly changed but they think they can get away with it before the conflicting traffic gets to them, and there really are a growing number who just drive up to a red light and seem to treat it as a sort of give-way where they check nothing is conflicting and floor it through the junction without waiting for a green light. I notice this last sort mainly when they do it through the green light phase of a cycleway, which they tend not to look for, probably because we usually can't kill them.

Driving along the pavement here is mostly one of three varieties:
1. I'm not waiting for that f#(<ing queuing car ahead wholly/partly in this lane to move before I go straight on / turn left (depending on road layout);
2. I'm not stopping for that f#(<ing emergency vehicle to get past me so I'll keep driving along the pavement at nearly full speed; and
3. parking.
...but I have seen many others, including trying to drive around bus gates or other access restrictions.

I'm surprised you're not seeing these near you yet, but that could be natural variation.
Riding as described above/going through a red light, riding on the pavement are all very deliberate actions. A close pass/pulling out etc are often just crap driving.
Anyone who drives should have demonstrated ability to drive correctly to pass the tests, so crap driving is also a very deliberate action. People cycling on the pavement might be simply ignorant, although that doesn't excuse it or defend against a fine.
 

nickr

Über Member
And "helmetless" has exactly what to do with anything? Please don't reply on this thread though, to avoid derailment. There is a whole big discussion about the use of plastic hats over here.


When I see a helmet-less person I think "reckless" just as when seeing a car driver with a baseball cap on backwards whilst sucking a lolly stick I think "potential idiot". I realize to other people may think differently. I put the word in merely for description, just as I included the gender of the cyclist behaving selfishly in Chiswick, I meant nothing by it.
 
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