Does this make helmets worth considering?

[ufkacbln]

One more thought... When you mentioned the weight bearing and new aches. At the time of an accident the body responds with a "fight or flight" syndrome that masks pain to enable you to respondSerious injuries often take 24 hours to present.If she is still umnable to weight bear do seek advice form a GP, walk in centre etc

 

[the snail]

Hope Mrs B makes a swift recovery. Given the limited protection afforded by a helmet, probably the best lesson to learn here is to concentrate on what you're doing and look where you're going!

 

[Red Light]

Hope Mrs B makes a swift recovery. Given the limited protection afforded by a helmet, probably the best lesson to learn here is to concentrate on what you're doing and look where you're going!

And keep your speed down until you have the experience and ability to control the bike at speed. 25mph is too fast if you've only been riding a few weeks. Its OK when things are fine but the instincts to deal with things going wrong will not have developed sufficiently. Better to prevent an accident than need protection from one.

 

[twobiker]

Not all cycling accidents are preventable, if they were it would'nt be an accident, but how much safety equipment a person wears is a very personal choice. I suspect your wife will continue to wear a helmet, once bitten twice shy etc. I always wear gloves and cycle glasses.

 

[Bicycle]

Not all cycling accidents are preventable, if they were it would'nt be an accident, but how much safety equipment a person wears is a very personal choice. I suspect your wife will continue to wear a helmet, once bitten twice shy etc. I always wear gloves and cycle glasses.

Indeed, not all accidents are preventable. I suspect that this one was, but it was not a function of inexperience.

I suspect you're right about her continuing to wear a helmet. She also wears gloves and cycle glasses.

Lots of helpful stuff in replies to this thread. Some bizarre and inaccurate stuff about helmet weight and similar (to which my queries went unanswered), but mostly good advice.

I wondered about the '25 mph is too fast after only a few weeks' comment.

She is a high-mileage driver, nearly 30 years with a full license and never a point or a motor accident or claim that was down to her. She learned to drive on a tractor as a schoolgirl. I understand why one might think otherwise, but 22-25 mph doesn't seem 'too fast too soon' to me. I may be wrong, but she's ridden 9 miles daily since late July and tracks very well, has a good line and good awareness.

She eschews the 35 mph+ descents beloved of my offspring, but 22-25 mph is a modest speed on a gentle descent.

I posted originally because I was amused at how I found myself being swayed by a move towards zealous, fundamentalist helmetology in the hours after the crash.

I am not longer so swayed, but will probably continue to be a professional hypocrite - wanting loved ones to wear one whilst frequently going without myself....

Thanks also to those who wished Mrs Bicycle well. X-Ray shows no broken bones in her foot, but ligament damage means weeks of hobbling. She is already itching to get back on the bicycle. I think that level of masochism comes from riding a horse in her youth.

 

[Red Light]

I wondered about the '25 mph is too fast after only a few weeks' comment.

She is a high-mileage driver, nearly 30 years with a full license and never a point or a motor accident or claim that was down to her. She learned to drive on a tractor as a schoolgirl. I understand why one might think otherwise, but 22-25 mph doesn't seem 'too fast too soon' to me. I may be wrong, but she's ridden 9 miles daily since late July and tracks very well, has a good line and good awareness.

That was my comment and how long she has held a driving license or driven tractors is nothing to do with it. A bicycle has two wheels, not four and while 25mph if everything goes right is not too much of a problem, its coping with when things go wrong at that speed that is missing. And that experience takes time to build up before you can stop thinking about how to react and react instinctively instead. At 25mph by the time you've realised something is going wrong and thought about what you should do about it its all over. Experience also means you know to avoid drain covers sunken or not, especially in the wet, unless you are going in a straight line without braking.

All IMO of course.

 

[twobiker]

Its a hard lesson but if there is a next time she will be more prepared,talking and reading can not prepare you for that sudden "OH shoot" moment, only the real thing.

 

[Dan B]

In this case the helmet weighs 230 grammes. If the average adult head weighs 4.5 kilos (often more), I'm seeing something under 10% there. Does anyone really make a cycle helmet that weighs 450 grammes? Does any adult have a head that weighs 2.5 kilos? This is not a posh, lightweight helmet.... I don't see where we're getting the figure of 10%.

My helmet is 277g according to the label inside, and moderately posh (I think it's about £80 rrp), so well done on finding a light one. But I agree that 10% does sound a bit on the high side.

[quote ]
As to doubling the area, that sounds fine and dandy. However, in this case the body in flight (which in this case was a body in flight) was travelling head first towards a plane (a metalled road surface).
[/quote]
You were there and we weren't, of course, so please don't take other posters throwing suggestions for how stuff "might have been" as contradicting you when you say how things actually were.

But I am curious about "head first" vs "landed on side of head", and I wonder if it was both helmet and shoulder that hit the ground? There is an argument that we have an instinctive reaction in such a collison to keep our heads off ground by bracing neck muscles (and probably give ourselves whiplash), but that when wearing a helmet it makes ground contact 1-2 inches sooner than the bare head would have done, so the natural reaction to stiffen the neck doesn't happen in time. Obviously if her shoulder didn't hit the ground then there is nothing to brace against and this is a moot point ...

 

[Bicycle]

That was my comment and how long she has held a driving license or driven tractors is nothing to do with it. A bicycle has two wheels, not four and while 25mph if everything goes right is not too much of a problem, its coping with when things go wrong at that speed that is missing. And that experience takes time to build up before you can stop thinking about how to react and react instinctively instead. At 25mph by the time you've realised something is going wrong and thought about what you should do about it its all over. Experience also means you know to avoid drain covers sunken or not, especially in the wet, unless you are going in a straight line without braking.

All IMO of course.

Ummm... I quite take the point that the length of time someone has been driving may not paint the whole picture... but it certainly has something to do with it.

Awareness, road sense, familiarity with judging speed, relative speed and distance are all part of the game here.

These will generally be more developed in a 45-year-old highly experienced driver than in a 45-year-old newcomer to road use.

It may well be that experience (lack of) played a part in the crash, but to say driving experience has nothing to do with it may be overstating your case a little.

Further; I think I understand what you are trying to say in your passage about experience taking time to build up before we can learn to react instinctively.... You seem to be suggesting that instinctive response or reaction is somehow a function of experience. I had to read your piece a couple of times, but that seems to be the point. I'm no scholar, but my limited knowledge has me believing that instinctive reactions are those which are innate. I've never heard of experience producing an instinctive response not previously present.

Of course, there are some instinctive responses that are displayed only as we mature, but they are not a function of experience. They are, as their name suggests, instinctive or innate.

You seem to be suggesting that we can learn instinctive responses. If we can, it may be a whole new field of study!

As to speed (although it's too late now), if 25 mph is too fast after a few weeks - how fast is not too fast?

I've ridden for a few years and often ride behind her when she's out. She stays off the big chain ring to keep her speed down, but on this (fairly gently) descent it's hard to stay under 25.

The training loop has no right turns and only three junctions. It's one used by our younger children.

Would 10 mph be OK? 15? 20?

If we are saying 25 is too fast, there must be a ballpark figure which is 'not too fast'.

As to Ben's point about the angle of impact... I do see what you mean. It may be that the shoulder was close to striking first, as I initially thought it was so. She was definitely 'head down', but I still thought the wallop was to the shoulder.

However, the dings on the helmet suggest that it was clearly head - and the absence of any bruising or grazing or soreness in the shoulder back that up. I see the point though.... There may be circumstances in which the helmet width causes it to strike first, but these were not they.

 

[rowan 46]

I think you need to go with your gut. For most of my cycling life I have never worn a helmet nor have I ever been killed. For the last couple of years I have been wearing a helmet as it stops my family nagging and surprisingly I am still alive. I am not sure about the effects of rotational injury on cycle helmets, neither are most fatal injuries caused by falling off a bike. I don't see a helmet protecting against a ton and a half of metal but they can help on low speed impacts with the floor. Experienced cyclists crash less often and at higher speeds so it really is a personal decision. It may be a good idea for Mrs cyclist who as you say is relatively inexperienced, but there is no reason that it will make you any safer. Nevertheless I don't think wearing one makes you less safe

 

[Red Light]

It may well be that experience (lack of) played a part in the crash, but to say driving experience has nothing to do with it may be overstating your case a little.

When was the last time you heard of someone crashing a car because of a moment's distraction while traversing a sunken drain cover? Driving a car gives you no clue as to it being a problem or what to do when you find yourself with the wheel pointing the wrong way and starting to lose your balance and go over the bars. If you think otherwise, please elucidate.

I'm no scholar, but my limited knowledge has me believing that instinctive reactions are those which are innate. I've never heard of experience producing an instinctive response not previously present.

How about bike riding. Do you do it without thinking these days i.e. instinctively or do you ride along continually thinking about which way to move your body weight and steering to keep it balance. Perhaps you were born with those skills but I think most people learn them until they become instinctive activities. I have learnt a lot over the years riding. Slipping wheels used to be a big problem for me but after taking up mountain biking where the rocks under your wheels are moving about or the wheel is sliding on a slippery surface, I take the odd wheel slip in my stride these days. There are plenty of learned behaviours that become instinctive as we practice them more and more.

Of course, there are some instinctive responses that are displayed only as we mature, but they are not a function of experience. They are, as their name suggests, instinctive or innate.

You seem to be suggesting that we can learn instinctive responses. If we can, it may be a whole new field of study!

in·stinc·tiveadjective /inˈstiNG(k)tiv/ 

1. Relating to or prompted by instinct; apparently unconscious or automatic
   • - an instinctive distaste for conflict
2. (of a person) Doing or being a specified thing apparently naturally or automatically
   • - an instinctive writer

I'd suggest writing is a learned, not innate, skill.

As to speed (although it's too late now), if 25 mph is too fast after a few weeks - how fast is not too fast?

I've ridden for a few years and often ride behind her when she's out. She stays off the big chain ring to keep her speed down, but on this (fairly gently) descent it's hard to stay under 25.

The training loop has no right turns and only three junctions. It's one used by our younger children.

Would 10 mph be OK? 15? 20?

If we are saying 25 is too fast, there must be a ballpark figure which is 'not too fast'.

No way of saying but it should be either slow enough to be able to handle situations as they arise or willing to accept the consequences otherwise. Its impossible for me to say what that is for your wife or the roads you are riding on.

 

[sunnyjim]

.......................zealous, fundamentalist helmetology............

Let's keep that phrase. Too good to lose.

 

[Mad at urage]

1. I often go without a helmet.

2. I will continue to do so.

3. I like my family to wear a helmet, but they often go without.

The event:

Training ride with Mrs Bicycle this morning. Country lane, gentle descent at about 23-25 mph.

She was distracted, hit a recessed drain cover and when weight returned to her front wheel it wasn't pointing forward.

She was thrown off the bike and it had the look (but not the same physical causes) of a motorcycling highside.

She went up then landed laterally (feet slightly up) in a sort of foetal crouch.

Once she'd collected herself (it was a big crash) she said she'd landed on the side of her head.

I thought that sounded odd, but not unlikely. I looked at her helmet and there was a series of good wallop marks on one side.

As it is she has the normal road rash on knee, thigh, thumbs etc....

But that dent on the helmet (even though the material is softer than bone) would surely have been the cause of a fairly hurty headache.

As I said above, I'm not a helmet fan. She is. But.... although I've never had a head injury in scores of crashes... I do find that dent in her helmet interesting.

Is it a reason for me to think again?

Glad Mrs B is OK Bicycle. Did she go to hospital and get checked for head injury ?

 

[ufkacbln]

I tthink that level of masochism comes from riding a horse in her youth

Or married to a cyclist?

 

[twobiker]

Driving a car has given me plenty of experiences which I can transfer to my bike riding, slippery drain covers,pull away in a car and feel a wheel spin, same goes for white lines, newly resurfaced roads, the loose gravel causes even a car to slide around, pedestrians crossing without looking, loose animals, the list is endless,every experience which I have had whilst driving will stand me in good stead when cycling,to use one set of knowledge for cycling and another set for driving is extremely foolish, combine all your knowledge and you are a far better cyclist and driver.