Doubling Up On Road

[freecyclist]

Credit to the moderators for allowing this thread to run despite the disruptive intentions of r2d2 and mrpaul. I am reassured that sense has prevailed and that the vast majority of forumers seem to think that we should Be considerate to other road users and where safe allow cars to overtake by riding in secondary single file. Clearly the militant philosophy that 2abreast is justified unquestioningly soley on the basis of legality and that making concessions to motorists is sign of spineless weakness are a small but vocal minority.
Us good cyclists have a duty to speak up lest these deluded fundamentalists are mistakenly taken as being representative of all of us.
In the same way , and in the absence of any arguement in favour of large groups of cyclists , i am sure that the majority of forumers also agree with me that large groups of cyclists should be discouraged and where numbers are high organisers should have the consideration and a sufficent sense of responsibility to stagger the total into smaller groups.

 

[srw]

Credit to the moderators for allowing this thread to run despite the disruptive intentions of r2d2 and mrpaul. I am reassured that sense has prevailed and that the vast majority of forumers seem to think that we should Be considerate to other road users and where safe allow cars to overtake by riding in secondary single file. Clearly the militant philosophy that 2abreast is justified unquestioningly soley on the basis of legality and that making concessions to motorists is sign of spineless weakness are a small but vocal minority.
Us good cyclists have a duty to speak up lest these deluded fundamentalists are mistakenly taken as being representative of all of us.
In the same way , and in the absence of any arguement in favour of large groups of cyclists , i am sure that the majority of forumers also agree with me that large groups of cyclists should be discouraged and where numbers are high organisers should have the consideration and a sufficent sense of responsibility to stagger the total into smaller groups.

You really haven't been reading the thread, have you?

 

[ianrauk]

Credit to the moderators for allowing this thread to run despite the disruptive intentions of r2d2 and mrpaul. I am reassured that sense has prevailed and that the vast majority of forumers seem to think that we should Be considerate to other road users and where safe allow cars to overtake by riding in secondary single file. Clearly the militant philosophy that 2abreast is justified unquestioningly soley on the basis of legality and that making concessions to motorists is sign of spineless weakness are a small but vocal minority.
Us good cyclists have a duty to speak up lest these deluded fundamentalists are mistakenly taken as being representative of all of us.
In the same way , and in the absence of any arguement in favour of large groups of cyclists , i am sure that the majority of forumers also agree with me that large groups of cyclists should be discouraged and where numbers are high organisers should have the consideration and a sufficent sense of responsibility to stagger the total into smaller groups.

You are completely bonkers. You do not speak for anybody but yourself.

And please stop referring to another member of the site as r2d2, it's very childish and quite pathetic.

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

Credit to the moderators for allowing this thread to run despite the disruptive intentions of r2d2 and mrpaul. I am reassured that sense has prevailed and that the vast majority of forumers seem to think that we should Be considerate to other road users and where safe allow cars to overtake by riding in secondary single file. Clearly the militant philosophy that 2abreast is justified unquestioningly soley on the basis of legality and that making concessions to motorists is sign of spineless weakness are a small but vocal minority.
Us good cyclists have a duty to speak up lest these deluded fundamentalists are mistakenly taken as being representative of all of us.
In the same way , and in the absence of any arguement in favour of large groups of cyclists , i am sure that the majority of forumers also agree with me that large groups of cyclists should be discouraged and where numbers are high organisers should have the consideration and a sufficent sense of responsibility to stagger the total into smaller groups.

I think you may need new glasses

 

[pepecat]

In the same way , and in the absence of any arguement in favour of large groups of cyclists , i am sure that the majority of forumers also agree with me that large groups of cyclists should be discouraged and where numbers are high organisers should have the consideration and a sufficent sense of responsibility to stagger the total into smaller groups.

How small?

The Dartmoor Classic (sportive on open roads in June) starts people in batches of approx 100. With over 2000 entries, they'd be there all day if they were to start in smaller groups. Sometimes it's just not possible.

 

[lukesdad]

[QUOTE 1588962"]
And you would be wrong.
[/quote]


You cannot Know that, as the vast majority have not aired a view and nor are they likely to.

 

[ianrauk]

You cannot Know that, as the mast majority have not aired a view and nor are they likely to.

C'mon Mark, the guys statement is bonkers.

 

[freecyclist]

How small?

The Dartmoor Classic (sportive on open roads in June) starts people in batches of approx 100. With over 2000 entries, they'd be there all day if they were to start in smaller groups. Sometimes it's just not possible.

Good points.
I was thinking 6 to 8 for normal (non event) type road groups with no special supervision or additional safety provision.
I see your point and my point is just a common sense based one on what we from a standpoint of best practice should be recommending.
I think the sportive like you refer to are great and should be embraced and encouraged.
If the organisers can make it work and its aok then thats fine , if there are any saftey concerns to cyclists taking part then , i dont know the road or area but would closing the road to public traffic be at all possible.

 

[lukesdad]

C'mon Mark, the guys statement is bonkers.

I think you d be quite surprised how many CCers would privately agree with a lot of his sentiments Ian, not all of them maybe , but as has gone before, anybody who thinks differently is treated as a loon. Hence we will never know as normal folk dont like to subject themselves to ridicule. Personally Im not bothered.... and Im sure you re not either, but if people are really interested in what the less vocal part of CC think the verbal bullying needs to stop.

 

[ianrauk]

I think you d be quite surprised how many CCers would privately agree with a lot of his sentiments Ian, not all of them maybe , but as has gone before, anybody who thinks differently is treated as a loon. Hence we will never know as normal folk dont like to subject themselves to ridicule. Personally Im not bothered.... and Im sure you re not either, but if people are really interested in what the less vocal part of CC think the verbal bullying needs to stop.

I'n not talking about verbal bullying Mark. That's another conversation.

They guy is a loon. If he honestly thinks that the majority of people on a cycling forum would agree with that nonsense statement he came out with then he deserves the loon tag.
This is a Cycling forum after all.

 

[Bicycle]

I've found this thread entertaining and thought-provoking. There has been a little borderline trollery - but aimed I think to amuse rather than perturb.

With my motorist's hat on I see things broadly as follows:

1. Group races on the roads of England and Wales: I treat them as mid-journey entertainment - like seeing a rare car or a buzzard swooping low. It doesn't wind me up even if I'm in a hurry. In my experience these events are well run, with marshals at junctions and plenty of signs on verges. Well worth throttling back for and somehow it's a privilege to have a fleeting view of a 'mini-peloton'.

2. Group rides and 'chain gangs'. There are plenty in this area. Most are fine. Insofar as they slow one up it's not an issue. It's nice to know that people care enough about their pursuits to go out in groups and put some effort in. They generally use routes where passing is possible every few hundred yards and they move at a decent speed. One or two have wound me up a little, but on the whole they are just another interesting sight on my way somewhere.

3. Parents riding 'slightly behind and slightly outside' a child on a major road. This isn't really 2-abreast and I have no issue with it. It's what I did when my children were learning to ride on fast A-roads and I think it makes sense. I wish more people would unleash their offspring on faster roads. I regret the great fear of child cycling that many parents display.

4. Noddy-headed dawdlers having a nice, gentle ride and a chat in the lanes, 2-abreast. They continue 2-abreast despite build-up of traffic. To me, these are not unlike the motley groups of teenager who walk in a line across the pavement to Greggs and make others step out of their path. They are inconsiderate or at best ignorant of the needs of others.

5. Two or more 'lycra missiles' on posh rides having a training ride and chatting 2-abreast while they ease off. Unlike the chain gangs and group races, these types could easily make themselves easy to pass but do not. There is a sense of entitlement about that sort of behaviour that irritates many drivers.

Essentially, the one who irk are those who could choose to get in line but who stay as they are and let others wait.

I think I feel like that with my cyclist's hat on too.

 

[theclaud]

4. Noddy-headed dawdlers having a nice, gentle ride and a chat in the lanes, 2-abreast. They continue 2-abreast despite build-up of traffic. To me, these are not unlike the motley groups of teenager who walk in a line across the pavement to Greggs and make others step out of their path. They are inconsiderate or at best ignorant of the needs of others.

5. Two or more 'lycra missiles' on posh rides having a training ride and chatting 2-abreast while they ease off. Unlike the chain gangs and group races, these types could easily make themselves easy to pass but do not. There is a sense of entitlement about that sort of behaviour that irritates many drivers.

Essentially, the one who irk are those who could choose to get in line but who stay as they are and let others wait.

I think I feel like that with my cyclist's hat on too.

Sense of entitlement? Did you write that with no intentional irony? All you give us here are caricatures that betray your essential conviction that cyclists are less entitled to the road space they are using than motorists.

 

[lukesdad]

[QUOTE 1588972"]
He's claimed that he's sure of a statement. That's wrong. Set up a poll if you like.
[/quote]


So have you. Tell me Mr P what is the highest reply rate to a poll on here. Probably 25% dont know what we re on about 50 % dont care and 24.9 % are just laughing, you don t get it do you ? Just because you are one of the most vocal on here does not make you the majority.

 

[DerbyMerc]

The times I'll agree with singling out are if it's genuinely holding up traffic - by that I mean a line starting to form behind us not a cars having to ease off the accelerator while they wait for a safe place to pass. Some roads that means never going 2 abreast but in general I prefer 2 abreast and I don't feel any guilt about it even if it annoys some motorists.

The exception to singling out would be in a chain gang when I'm sorry but we've chosen the widest most suitable roads we can and they'll just have to wait (or occasionally force their way past while sounding the horn and gesticulating at us).

I'm sure that's all been said in the preceeding 50 pages but I've only really logged on as BikeRadar is down and haven't read back.

 

[Bicycle]

Sense of entitlement? Did you write that with no intentional irony? All you give us here are caricatures that betray your essential conviction that cyclists are less entitled to the road space they are using than motorists.

No irony. I'm a keen cyclist.

Everyone is entitled to use the road. I'm just back from a very windy and chilly blast myself; woolly hat down over ears and nose going very pink.

I can see how you see caricatures in my fairly generalised view of different types of 2-abreast cycling, but they are reasonable accurate and representative of the riding where I live.

The sense of entitlement I refer to is that of someone who feels entitled to delay others, when moving across and tucking in as a courtesy would be easy and quick.

I do not and (and by my actions cannot) believe that cyclists are less entitled to raoad space than motorists.

I've re-read the entry that prompted your response and see no such 'essential conviction' in it. From my biased perspective as its author it looks rather rosily pro-cyclist.

If there is an essential conviction, it is that courtesy should be shown to fellow road users. It's a family joke that I always lower a window to wave thanks when a tractor pulls in for a line of cars I'm in. Even in howling gales and sleet. I notice that almost no other drivers do this.

I'm often the cause of a small traffic tailback when I'm cycling in twisty lanes, but I can't make my bicycle any narrower. I feel perfectly entitled to be there.