Driving advice!

[Time Waster]

You couldn't overtake anywhere for nearly 20 minutes?

If I'm on the bike I'd carry on as is.

I said possibly5 miles not 20 minutes.

Basically I live in a village at the end of a loop and a series of other loops go to other villages. There's quite a few cycle routes converging in the area. It's a really popular cycling area locally. However the roads have a variety of factors at different locations which mean that true safe overtakes are difficult. I also drive a van which IMHO means any iffy manoeuvre is going to feel worse than a car doing it. It's also not very fast at accelerating.

So we've got narrow with passing points, blind bends, hills/rises that limit visibility ahead, high hedges, walls, etc. We also have what is basically the only road to efficiently get into the local villages. That means there's going to be vehicles going both ways fairly frequently. Add in few pull in spots like gates other than perhaps passing places. Add to that I'm a cautious driver with overtaking manoeuvres, possibly because I've mostly driven slow vehicles and did an advanced driving course q few weeks after passing my test at 17yo that has made me risk adverse when driving.

So basically I'm not overtaking until there's a two car width section of road that's straight and long enough visibility to know no vehicle is coming in the time i can safely overtake. Most drivers don't do this ime. Not on my local roads at least.

As a cyclist I'm of the mind to pull in if I'm followed by a car. Partly courtesy but also because the longer the driver has to wait, the more likely the overtake will not be safe and with enough gap. However you've got 5 miles to get home knowing you'll meet cars often.

As far as I'm concerned caution is right as a driver. Similarly as a cyclist I believe you should let the driver through if it's dragging on if safe to pull over and providing it's not holding you as the cyclist up too much. I certainly think a cyclist should never wave a driver through in a place the driver cannot see enough clear road to overtake. Often the cyclist ahead has a lot better view of the road than the driver behind them. That's possibly why cyclists do that, they think it's the right thing to do for good etiquette and being helpful. IMHO it's potentially dangerous. In the past I've overtaken based on a cyclists wave desnot having the line of sight to know it was safe. Once or twice I've ended up cutting the cyclist up having seen oncoming car and realising it wasn't a safe passing point. That's when I was a young driver. It's why I never wave a motorist through when I'm driving.

I guess cooperation between driver and cyclist is best with the proviso that everyone takes their own responsibility for safe riding/ driving. No waving through or blindly following a cyclist's waved instructions. If that makes sense.

 

[slowmotion]

It's simple good manners for the cyclist to pull over if he's been holding up traffic for a while. I don't care about "rights".

 

[Ming the Merciless]

What you could of course do, is pull over yourself, wait a few minutes, then get going again. The type of lane you describe you are not going to go that fast yourself (whether anyone else is in front of you or not), perhaps no more than 30 mph if that. Waiting a few minutes before getting going again would work well.

 

[PaulSB]

I'm a cyclist and driver, this question is aimed at others who do both.

I have a particular driving / cycling question that's come up after driving behind a roadie. I hung back while the cyclist sped along at about 18mph round bends and hills on a narrow country road. I struggle to safely overtake for possibly 5 miles without the risk of meeting an oncoming car round a bend or close passing because its a narrow road. I simply sit back a couple of car lengths or more. I even keep the engine low and quiet revving until I can overtake with at least 1 to 1,5m gap.

This isn't the issue. The issue is I'm conscious the cyclist is nervously looking back and ime in such a situation on a bike I too feel conscious I'm holding a driver up, or if not that, I'm conscious it's taking time for us to reach a overtaking opportunity.

Here's the question...

What's best in such situations? Both as a driver and cyclist?

I think I'm doing things right both cycling and driving in such places. I just think we need to know that even when doing things right there's a kind of discomfort there. How to reduce that?

I know the cyclist waving through a driver is wrong. If I can't see a safe way through I won't overtake on someone else's say so, quite rightly too. I also know sitting back a few lengths doesn't quite help putting the cyclist at ease. I also know as a cyclist pulling in and stopping to n let the driver pass by only means you'll be back in that situation with the next car along.

I can only think that the way I drive is right but similarly the cyclist needs to carry on, ignoring their discomfort, and leave it to me to decide when I can safely pass in the car. Not ideal because knowing a car is behind you even safely back isn't great for a nice country lane ride.

Over to you for your views on this.As the cyclist if an opportunity to wave you through or pull over came along I would take it.

As a cyclist if a driver is sitting "a couple of car lengths" behind me I would be very nervous and would keep glancing behind me in an attempt to let the driver know I'm concerned.

I would pull over or wave the driver through at the first opportunity. I don't really like to say this but as a cyclist you should know having a car "a couple of lengths" behind is intimidating and means the driver would struggle to stop in an emergency. I'd hope a driver would stay 30-40 metres back in this situation.

As a driver that's where I would sit. A couple of car lengths is too close and it's a shame you don't recognise this.

 

[a.twiddler]

Even if someone in front helpfully waves you on, you should drive/ride for yourself and only proceed if you can see for yourself that it's safe to pass.
Maybe a bit off topic but drivers are sometimes unexpectedly polite in my area and on a particular open stretch of road which is one lane each way with a narrow painted cycle lane each side I often find that when approaching from behind on my motorcycle cars will pull in to the left with one wheel in the cycle lane almost inviting me to squeeze past in the face of continuous oncoming traffic in the other lane. This would be helpful if traffic was at a crawl but this even happens when traffic is travelling at about 50 or 60 mph. Not too comfortable with that idea. Someone only has to be distracted by their phone and the space will disappear mid overtake.

 

[classic33]

It's simple good manners for the cyclist to pull over if he's been holding up traffic for a while. I don't care about "rights".

I'll do that when it's safe for me to do so, not when the driver behind wants me to.

 

[gbb]

As a driver, all you can do is sit back and wait for a safe opportunity, there is nothing else to do. If that opportunity takes 5 minutes to come along, so be it, to do anything else is unsafe. Even chances come into question, an opportunity may quickly develop into something inopportune,
As a cyclist, I frequently let lorries and buses through in situations where there are few safe opportunities , same goes for cars, if itmeans hopping onto an empty adjacent path, even pulling over and stopping sometimes seems preferable to feeling uncomfortable or holding up holding up increasing amounts of traffic.

There is no right...or wrong, everyone's just got to deal with the particular situation sensibly, like grownups

 

[Roseland triker]

Lanes here are deadly. Cars doing 70mph is standard so I tend to get out of the way when I hear a vehicle. Tractors touch both sides of the road so meeting them is bad.
One lane I use touches both wing mirrors in the 4x4 and is commonly used by sat navvrs.
Easier to just not ride on the roads but I always get outta the way asap as getting around here by car is the only way really to get stuff done. Going to do food shopping is a day trip

 

[oldwheels]

I have just ridden along a lot of very narrow Devon lanes. If drivers living in the villages that I passed through wanted to avoid those lanes, they could end up driving 25 km instead of 5!

Nearly everyone seems to know the score and acts accordingly. I pulled over several times to let traffic past and several drivers stopped for me.

I spotted the reversing lights come on in a van way ahead of me so I quickly pulled into a driveway and suggested that the driver behind follow me, which he did. The van reversed all the way back to us with a minibus following. Once the van had also pulled in to the drive, the bus went past. I ended up at the front of the queue, but let the van and car go first. Both drivers smiled and thanked me.

Give and take from everyone, that's what is needed!

Where I live the situation you describe is very common. Nearly all roads are single track with passing places.Locals give and take but tourists [which includes cyclists] are mostly ignorant.

 

[Alex321]

As a cyclist if a driver is sitting "a couple of car lengths" behind me I would be very nervous and would keep glancing behind me in an attempt to let the driver know I'm concerned.

I would pull over or wave the driver through at the first opportunity. I don't really like to say this but as a cyclist you should know having a car "a couple of lengths" behind is intimidating and means the driver would struggle to stop in an emergency. I'd hope a driver would stay 30-40 metres back in this situation.

As a driver that's where I would sit. A couple of car lengths is too close and it's a shame you don't recognise this.

30 - 40 metres is ridiculously far back at speeds under 20mph - which the cyclist almost certainly will be, unless on a downhill stretch. Even at motorway speeds, the recommended gap of 2 seconds isn't quite that far.

A couple of car lengths is intimidating, and for that reason you should stay back further than that, but from the POV of safety, it should be enough at those speeds, given you will also be able to see beyond the cyclist.

 

[cougie uk]

I'm a cyclist and driver, this question is aimed at others who do both.

I have a particular driving / cycling question that's come up after driving behind a roadie. I hung back while the cyclist sped along at about 18mph round bends and hills on a narrow country road. I struggle to safely overtake for possibly 5 miles without the risk of meeting an oncoming car round a bend or close passing because its a narrow road. I simply sit back a couple of car lengths or more. I even keep the engine low and quiet revving until I can overtake with at least 1 to 1,5m gap.

This isn't the issue. The issue is I'm conscious the cyclist is nervously looking back and ime in such a situation on a bike I too feel conscious I'm holding a driver up, or if not that, I'm conscious it's taking time for us to reach a overtaking opportunity.

Here's the question...

What's best in such situations? Both as a driver and cyclist?

I think I'm doing things right both cycling and driving in such places. I just think we need to know that even when doing things right there's a kind of discomfort there. How to reduce that?

I know the cyclist waving through a driver is wrong. If I can't see a safe way through I won't overtake on someone else's say so, quite rightly too. I also know sitting back a few lengths doesn't quite help putting the cyclist at ease. I also know as a cyclist pulling in and stopping to n let the driver pass by only means you'll be back in that situation with the next car along.

I can only think that the way I drive is right but similarly the cyclist needs to carry on, ignoring their discomfort, and leave it to me to decide when I can safely pass in the car. Not ideal because knowing a car is behind you even safely back isn't great for a nice country lane ride.

Over to you for your views on this.

If I was the cyclist and knew you were there I would have pulled over in a drive or something to let you pass. I don't want a car tailing me.

As a cyclist I have waved cars past - I'm often taller than the car and can see further ahead much of the time. Cars usually take advantage of this.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I said possibly5 miles not 20 minutes.

It’s going to be near enough 17 minutes at 18 mph, so not far off 20 mins. At least 17 mins you didn’t feel you could overtake.

 

[PaulSB]

30 - 40 metres is ridiculously far back at speeds under 20mph - which the cyclist almost certainly will be, unless on a downhill stretch. Even at motorway speeds, the recommended gap of 2 seconds isn't quite that far.

A couple of car lengths is intimidating, and for that reason you should stay back further than that, but from the POV of safety, it should be enough at those speeds, given you will also be able to see beyond the cyclist.

As you wish but he is talking narrow twisty hilly lanes. Its not possible to get by so sitting 30 metres back makes sense. Minimum topping distance at 20mph is 12 metres, keeping well back makes sense as under these conditions it's impossible to see everything which may happen. Note minimum stopping distance.

This driver sat on the cyclist's wheel, far too close at +/- 8 metres. I'd want someone who drives like that a lot further back.

 

[Time Waster]

As a cyclist if a driver is sitting "a couple of car lengths" behind me I would be very nervous and would keep glancing behind me in an attempt to let the driver know I'm concerned.

I would pull over or wave the driver through at the first opportunity. I don't really like to say this but as a cyclist you should know having a car "a couple of lengths" behind is intimidating and means the driver would struggle to stop in an emergency. I'd hope a driver would stay 30-40 metres back in this situation.

As a driver that's where I would sit. A couple of car lengths is too close and it's a shame you don't recognise this.

A few car lengths. Tbh the distance was a lot further back than I'm used to from cars. I don't think he was concerned about me being behind him other than being conscious, like I am when cycling such lanes, that were both trying to get along but there's a speed discrepancy.

In the end there's a spot with a very wide section of road on a bend. So wide people park on the outside of the bend. He slowed down, but didn't stop, to allow me safely past. I think that was possibly the 4th potential spot we passed that he could let me past.

Whatever the distance behind (van lengths not cycle lengths which would explain your comments if that's your thoughts) was more than sufficient to stop in even if I'd gone round a corner to meet him stationary in the middle of the road. The sort of distance other drivers would see as an overtaking opportunity to fill the gap, if the road was wide enough! My car positioning was not an issue, if that's your take on my op. A couple of lengths comment was simply meant to explain that I was driving a safe distance back.

Exact distance I don't know but not a safety issue for the cyclist. However, my presence behind, going slower than normal, safe car/ van speed, IMHO was what he was conscious of. My eventual passing got a wave both ways which I don't think would happen if my driving was an issue.

Whilst it's a common occurrence for cyclist to forget what closely following cars feel like when they're in the car driving. That's not me. I made the change in driving behaviour from that type of driver years ago. I just got in my car one day and felt calm, without a need to rush anywhere. No matter how late I might be my view is I'll get there when I get there. Besides sitting behind a cyclist going round bends give me a chance to try and check his bike out. I might not be able to afford expensivebikes but I can appreciate them when I see them.

 

[Oldhippy]

If I had my way anything smaller than a dual carriageway would be of limits to cars, trucks, vans.