Dutch roundabouts......
- Thread starter Dave 123
- Start date
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wiggydiggy
Guru
Its not big enough. What I mean is, a larger multi lane RAB may benefit from some segregation but that one, no its too small and you're (probably preaching to the choir here
) better off staying in the lanes provided for all traffic.
I am in favour of segregation where it is of benefit to the cyclist in terms of convenience and safety, but this isnt it.
) better off staying in the lanes provided for all traffic.I am in favour of segregation where it is of benefit to the cyclist in terms of convenience and safety, but this isnt it.
Its not big enough. What I mean is, a larger multi lane RAB may benefit from some segregation but that one, no its too small and you're (probably preaching to the choir here
I think that's fine for experienced (dare I say hardened) cyclists, but if we want cycling to become the norm for short journeys, we need to encourage casual cycling for inexperienced and unconfident cyclists.
wiggydiggy
Guru
I agree, the encouragement I mean, but how many people are not cycling because they feel they cannot negotiate the roads vs those that dont cycle as they perceive it as less convenient than their current method.
Thats a genuine question BTW (open to all I'm not putting you on the spot!) Have there been any studies about what encourages people to cycle?
If I was to use my own experience it'd be the building of a shared cycle bus lane, resurfacing a canal towpath and providing secure cycle parking at the tarin station appears to be getting more people on their bike. I say appears as there are no figures I know of to quote but cycling does seem more popular.
I don't know the answer to that. I do know that asking inexperienced and unconfident cyclists to mix with traffic is not going to encourage them to cycle.
wiggydiggy
Guru
But is that more to do with driver behaviour and a lack of readily available training, than a need to segregate and wrap them in cotton wool? It just seems like we're avoiding the issue (of them being inexperienced/lacking confidence) by removing them from the road altogether, which (as I operating under the expectation all cyclists will have to use those lanes) isnt going to work for all.
Again, only having my own experience, in Leeds there is school based training, and the universities offer training so if you fall outside those groups your on your own. Would a aimed at for adults course/training do more long term than poorly designed facilities, I think so.
Personally I think that you can have all the driver and cyclist training in the world, but busy roads will always be hostile and intimidating to the casual cyclist. I think continental-style segregation is a vital tool to encouraging and normalising cycling as an everyday means of transport.
I want to see a situation where cycling is the default option for short journeys, and unless you're carrying a load, driving short journeys is seen as weird and abnormal.
wiggydiggy
Guru
Oh yes its a vital tool certainly, but like all tools it needs to be used properly, and segregating where it is not needed is not normalising cycling but actually highlighting a (mis)conception that it is overtly dangerous.
Another example perhaps, Sheepscar Exchange Leeds has had some good segregation fitted. Its a busy junction for any cyclist to negotiate and also on a hill so going the wrong way puts you at a slower speed and potentially more vulnerable. The segregation in place has its own light sequence, and mostly rejoins the carriageway in a sensible manner. It only slightly delays you compared to sticking to the road but at a greater benefit than trying to negotiate it without segregation.
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll=53.809224,-1.534996&spn=0.001313,0.004045&t=k&z=18
