Electric cars

[Accy cyclist]

Silent cars are a hazard to cyclists,and pedestrians! Especially when they silently creep up and overtake you.

 

[Paul.G.]

My company car is a Vauxhall Ampera which is classed as a range extender vehicle (rev) I've had the car for almost 2 years and would never go back to a conventional car. I'm very lucky in that my daily commute of 42 miles total fits perfectly within the battery range and my employer allows me to charge the car for free at work. My total electricity cost for my work only commute is £17 per month! Even if I could not charge it at work and you double the electricity cost, its still amazingly cheep to run.

 

[screenman]

I used to drive electric vehicles on the road every day and that was 40 years ago. I can see lots of times that a car is an advantage over a two wheeled open vehicle no matter how it was powered.

 

[Pale Rider]

Buying price is a big problem with the Leaf - about £25K - if you can still get the £5K subsidy.

I recently paid less than half that for a nearly new Vauxhall Meriva auto, which I reckon is a similar car.

Looks like the Leaf costs £3 to charge, for which you get 80 miles.

That's only about a quarter of the price of fuel for 80 miles in a diesel car.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring...issan-Leaf-electric-car-long-term-review.html

 

[Arch]

Silent cars are a hazard to cyclists,and pedestrians! Especially when they silently creep up and overtake you.

A lot of the noise created by a car is the noise of the tyres on the road, not the engine.

And there's no problem being overtaken if the overtake is careful and respectful. The problem with being overtaken lies with the driver, not the vehicle.

If people pay attention, they should be perfectly aware of any vehicle, even another cyclist, coming up behind them.

They have minimal appeal, they don't make much sense. They still get stuck in traffic, wasting energy.

Our electric truck has a kill switch, when we pull up in traffic, we turn off and we're using no energy, unlike the idling cars and vans alongside us. A car will probably still have to draw some power for all those essentials like aircon and radio (our aircon is the window, and we sing for entertainment...) but will waste much less energy than a an IC engine idling.

That said, there are issues to overcome, some real, some just mental habit. And at the end of the day the electricity has got to come from somewhere. The real effort should be in reducing car use wherever possible.

(our work truck, BTW, is really a warehouse vehicle, slow and elderly, with a tiny range. We recently got to test drive a new truck, and it was brilliant. As fast as needed around town (30mph max) and a 60 miles range, enough for a week of work for us - and enough for most people's pottering around town.

 

[helston90]

There was great emphasis on being aware that you're running near silently- especially through town/ residential areas.
Story went of a blind man waiting to cross the road, his seeing eye dog wouldn't let him cross as he saw the car but because the blind man couldn't hear it he made the dog carry on- they then got hit.

 

[MarkF]

Our electric truck has a kill switch, when we pull up in traffic, we turn off and we're using no energy, unlike the idling cars and vans alongside us.

I take your point, but it's still stuck in traffic like a leccy car would be. It's a shame the authorities didn't factor this into account before banning very economical 2 stroke engines.

 

[MarkF]

There was great emphasis on being aware that you're running near silently- especially through town/ residential areas.
Story went of a blind man waiting to cross the road, his seeing eye dog wouldn't let him cross as he saw the car but because the blind man couldn't hear it he made the dog carry on- they then got hit.

Is this an urban myth? I recall a similar story from 30+ years ago, when some motorcycles had "bleeping" indicators.............."bleep bleep" = green to go..........

 

[ufkacbln]

The almost silent is a down side

Many of the fleet operators noted that their electric vehicles were experiencing more accidents

This was shown to be bra cause people listened for vehicles and no noise was assumed to mean no vehicle

Noise emitters are often fitted for this reason

 

[TheDoctor]

I take your point, but it's still stuck in traffic like a leccy car would be. It's a shame the authorities didn't factor this into account before banning very economical 2 stroke engines.

Very economical 2 stroke engines?
Cheap to build, certainly. Economical to run? Far from it.
And as a consequence of the design, they pump unburnt fuel and oil into the air.
They were banned for very good reasons.

EDIT - IIRC, two-strokes aren't banned, as such. It's just that it's impossible to engineer one to get the emissions low enough...

 

[Salad Dodger]

At my last job, the company had a few different "pure" electric cars i.e. non-hybrid on trial.

I spoke to a couple of the guys who were driving them, and no-one was particularly impressed. In daylight, on local runs, the batteries were holding charge pretty well and range for local trips was not a problem. But in the dark, with demisters and so on being used, the batteries discharged rather fast, leading to real "range anxiety" i.e. driving along with one eye almost permanently on the battery gauge.

My boss was an astute man, and I am sure he would have negotiated a very good deal indeed if he had opted to buy one or more electric cars for the business, but he didn't.... which speaks volumes to me about where electric cars are at the moment......

 

[MarkF]

Very economical 2 stroke engines?
Cheap to build, certainly. Economical to run? Far from it.
And as a consequence of the design, they pump unburnt fuel and oil into the air.
They were banned for very good reasons...

Yep, very economical, I own and use one, 150cc's of raw power, I get approximately 115/120pg, not bad seeing as it was manufactured in 1962 with an engine of just 3 or 4 moving parts! What ecological negative impact has this half a century old, but still functioning, scooter made, compared to a short lifespan plastic, toxic battery powered vehicle? Progress eh?

I don't think they were banned for every good reasons, the problems caused by 2 stroke polluting constant moving scooters are totally insignificant compared to idle, queuing cars.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

I don't think they were banned for every good reasons, the problems caused by 2 stroke polluting constant moving scooters are totally insignificant compared to idle, queuing cars.

Yes they were, they are just about the worst polluting engine out there, to keep the engine running you have to pump/feed oil in the combustion chamber or they will seize. The 100K's worth of Vespa's running around won't kill the world, but if you allowed the Chinese to builds 2 million of them a year it would have a huge impact.

This is coming from an old man who still loves the sound & smell of 2 stroke multi cylinder bikes

Alan...

 

[Paul.G.]

The almost silent is a down side

Many of the fleet operators noted that their electric vehicles were experiencing more accidents

This was shown to be bra cause people listened for vehicles and no noise was assumed to mean no vehicle

Noise emitters are often fitted for this reason

Disagree, I'm the fleet manager fot the 7th largest fleet in the UK which is made up of car, van and HGV so its fair to say I have quite a fair understanding of accident statistics and there is no indication that incidents involving electric vehicles are any higher than "normal" vehicles. However, the bods in Brussels have now passed a law that all new models must have a forward noise projection device which is activated once the speed falls below 18MPH. The decision is proven to be based entirely on scare mongering and perception rather than supporting statistics but that's the EU for you.

 

[ufkacbln]

Research however does not seem to support your findings.....

Just one paper because it is available to read in PDF so people can decide for themselves.

If you need more evidence, this one will link you to a few more:

The Silent but Deadly

So several groups believe that the statistics are not only there, but also significant

Then there is the
Transport research laboratory (TRL)

Although conclusions cannot be drawn that represent the situation at a national
level, the subjective test results showed that in a semi-rural environment, the
likelihood of increased risk exposure was 1.4 times greater for E/HE vehicles than for
ICE vehicles. In urban conditions, the likelihood of increased risk exposure was 1.3
times greater for E/HE vehicles than for ICE vehicles (due to the reduced detectability of quieter ICE vehicles). The E/HE vehicles were far more difficult to detect than the ICE vehicles at the lowest steady speed and when pulling way from rest at the lowest speed