England v Germany

[mangaman]

The players we regard as world class in their club sides have their basic deficiencies masked by the quality of the imported players around them, put eleven Englishmen together and it all falls apart. Sailing through a fairly low standard qualifying section fooled us into thinking we were something we are not, and on reflection geting to the first knockout stage was probably an over acheivement.

I agree Smoking J. except we hardly sailed through the group

It was a crap group and we very nearly didn't get through it. It was a bit tense at the end against the mighty Slovenians

Just to bring some homegrown tribal loyalty in - I'm a Norwich fan, and we lost 7-1 at home last year to Colchester at home. We lost the next game as well, then hired Paul Lambert from Colchester (who had masterminded our massacre) and he went on to win the league at a canter.

The reason for bringing it up, is Lambert is a bright young manager. When he was in his early 20s in mid-table SPL he decided to transfer to Dortmund (who were mid-table German) and they built a team around him that won the Champions League (He was the 1st British player to win it)

When he retired, he refused to get his badges in England and became, I believe, the only non-German to be allowed to take their coaching badges as he realised how far ahead of us they were.

I wouldn't be surprised if you see him managing a top Prem side before too long. Norwich in the 3rd division last year could pass / trap a ball / move into space to receive the ball again etc.

It was clear that this was his method - ie the German one (and he always had workable Plans B and C up his sleeve)

 

[mangaman]

Is it complete crap though? In 2002 England suffered a bit due to either the heat or tiredness. Nearly all the sides that were very fit and worked hard and seem to like the climate progressed. People were raising big question marks then, it's just we played quite a bit better.

Maybe not compete crap - possibly exaggerated slightly. Obviously the heat wasn't an excuse this time.

As I've said - most Barcelona players have played more competative games this season than English Prem players, as have Inter players etc because of the European games.

The Premiership is as hard on Tevez or Park Ji-Sung as Gerrard et al, but they seem fresh as daisies.

I think if you can keep the ball as a team and not have to chase constantly you conserve energy - it comes down to 1st touch and movement off the ball I reckon.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

I think if you can keep the ball as a team and not have to chase constantly you conserve energy - it comes down to 1st touch and movement off the ball I reckon.

Yes. And anyone who has played football at any reasonable level in the UK can see that this isn't the British way - unfortunately. There is a lot of emphasis placed on effort and looking like you are doing something, and also far too much on aerial play and heading the ball, and far too little placed on basic skills, getting the ball under control, passing and moving, and guile. We might get annoyed at all those 'diving foreigners' but that too comes from at attitude to the game that emphasizes dexterity and intelligence.

 

[mangaman]

Yes. And anyone who has played football at any reasonable level in the UK can see that this isn't the British way - unfortunately. There is a lot of emphasis placed on effort and looking like you are doing something, and also far too much on aerial play and heading the ball, and far too little placed on basic skills, getting the ball under control, passing and moving, and guile. We might get annoyed at all those 'diving foreigners' but that too comes from at attitude to the game that emphasizes dexterity and intelligence.

I agree. The saddest thing about watching my 9 year old nepew play village football was the (well-meaning/lovely chap / no qualifications) at half time.

I thought they ran round like headless chickens all half - he wanted them to do even more running in the 2nd half. His team talk was about passion and 110% effort.

They were only bloody 9.

In Brazil / Argentina / Spain / Holland they probably aren't even allowed on a full sized pitch at that age.

 

[marinyork]

Maybe not compete crap - possibly exaggerated slightly. Obviously the heat wasn't an excuse this time.

Certainly not an excuse this time, the cool evening games .

 

[Bill Gates]

Tiredness isn't just a physical condition. Capello said that they were great in training but weren't performing in the matches. Pressure to perform can have the effect of draining energy; and the lack of movement and awareness to create opportunities and track the opposition when they were in possession smacked of mental fatigue.

 

[johnnyh]

I agree. The saddest thing about watching my 9 year old nepew play village football was the (well-meaning/lovely chap / no qualifications) at half time.

I thought they ran round like headless chickens all half - he wanted them to do even more running in the 2nd half. His team talk was about passion and 110% effort.

They were only bloody 9.

In Brazil / Argentina / Spain / Holland they probably aren't even allowed on a full sized pitch at that age.

In this country the FA sets out that they should be playing on a mini soccer pitch with a size 4 ball at the age of 9, and 7 aside is the norm.

There is plenty of help on offer from the County FA's, so absolutely no excuse for what you describe above. Tell his parents to seek a charter standard club for him, or better still a community club if there is one in the area.

 

[lukesdad]

Mangaman. Money came into the game after 66". Although Ill grant you not on the level it is now. I can remember the outcry, When Allan Clarke became the first 100,000 pound player,it was said then and how true it was, that the floodgates would open.

The clubs play the players wages. The players are loyal to their lifestyle not their country. What do you expect.

Take sports that we are succesfull at Rowing Sailing Track Cycling .How much money are they paid ? Then look at the individuals involved with sailors rowers and cyclists (well most Cyclists) you can have an intelligent conversation. Couldn t say that about the England squad could you.

There has been a massive change in english football since 66 and 70. The sad thing is that now there are not many intelligent people involved in the game, they go elsewhere, to be involved in a sport not a buisness.

 

[snakehips]

Yes. And anyone who has played football at any reasonable level in the UK can see that this isn't the British way - unfortunately. There is a lot of emphasis placed on effort and looking like you are doing something, and also far too much on aerial play and heading the ball, and far too little placed on basic skills, getting the ball under control, passing and moving, and guile. We might get annoyed at all those 'diving foreigners' but that too comes from at attitude to the game that emphasizes dexterity and intelligence.

Did anybody watch Fulham's European run last season. That's exactly what Hodgson has (had?) got them doing.

Snake

My Library

 

[dodgy]

Have you actually seen a premiership clubs fitness regime? Trust me, it's not just 'Gently Skipping', 'Jumping sideways' and 'Dribbling a ball around some cones then running back to the start'. They are extremely fit athletes. What a ridiculous comment.

Sorry, not convinced. Not when compared with their International adversaries anyway.

 

[Smokin Joe]

I agree Smoking J. except we hardly sailed through the group

It was a crap group and we very nearly didn't get through it. It was a bit tense at the end against the mighty Slovenians
Just to bring some homegrown tribal loyalty in - I'm a Norwich fan, and we lost 7-1 at home last year to Colchester at home. We lost the next game as well, then hired Paul Lambert from Colchester (who had masterminded our massacre) and he went on to win the league at a canter.

The reason for bringing it up, is Lambert is a bright young manager. When he was in his early 20s in mid-table SPL he decided to transfer to Dortmund (who were mid-table German) and they built a team around him that won the Champions League (He was the 1st British player to win it)

When he retired, he refused to get his badges in England and became, I believe, the only non-German to be allowed to take their coaching badges as he realised how far ahead of us they were.

I wouldn't be surprised if you see him managing a top Prem side before too long. Norwich in the 3rd division last year could pass / trap a ball / move into space to receive the ball again etc.

It was clear that this was his method - ie the German one (and he always had workable Plans B and C up his sleeve)

Wrong qualifying group, mangaman.

I should have made it clearer, I was referring to pre tournament qualification.

 

[swee'pea99]

"They can control a moving ball / pass it / hold it. We can't."

Can't remember who said it, but I once heard one of the greats say that 'football is all about the first touch'.

 

[Vidor06]

With regards to the issue of tiredness, it was stated that Maicon, the Brasilian right back, had played 63 games for his club prior to the World Cup and he certainly does not look fatigued. This is a poor excuse for a poor performing, overhyped team. That said, when did John Terry become such a bad defender? There must be some reason for his and others completely abject performance.

 

[Yellow Fang]

That said, when did John Terry become such a bad defender? There must be some reason for his and others completely abject performance.

The German manager said they targeted John Terry to pull him out of position. Hansen was wondering whether being moved from left to right central defence had unsettled him, as he used to find that difficult himself. Couldn't happen to a nicer chap.

 

[Fnaar]

If we had footy-tennis on telly on Saturdays instead of X-flipping-factor, things might be different!

(From Argentina, but title and most comments in Italian)

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaoNphQxXyo