Everlasting bike? Cranks? Anything else?

[scotsbikester]

Slightly worryingly, @scotsbikester , I too have "snagged" several UN-55s to see me to 'the end' and have an XD-2 triple chainset ready to fit to my new frame, together with other 9sp drivetrain items (with a set of STIs and derailleurs to spare). Have you been having a sly peek in my 'box'?
I think we need to know more about the wheels (besides 622, 135mm OLD and discs). Is their internal rim width enough? What tyres will you run? After all it's clear that tubes will stop being produced once all tyres are tubeless: so you need to be prepared for that.

Ha-ha. Yes, possibly we've ended up bidding against each other on eBay. Sorry if I won ;-)

I'm not really thinking about wheels and tyres (though I assuming your comment was tongue in cheek). Though the nice thing about disc brakes and a frame with wide clearance I can run any wheel tyre combination that's more or less the right size. I've got a spare rear hub, for the freehub really.

 

[Ajax Bay]

I've got a spare rear hub, for the freehub really.

Me too!

 

[scotsbikester]

I think you may be overthinking this a bit @scotsbikester . As @fossyant says stuff that's 30 or more years old you can still get spares for, or if not s slight upgrade to what might be available.
Should keep you going well into your nineties, then the only spares you might then be concerned about are body ones

Possibly. Maybe not "overthinking", just overdoing. My question was really to see if I'd missed some non-obvious component that would render a lot of the bike useless if it failed. But I don't think I have.

As most of the "spares" I buy are actually new or good condition they will be sellable for some time. Maybe even at a profit. I'll leave them in my will to some deserving cause.
One of the things about having lots of compatible "stuff" is that for the price of a new/used frame, I could build up a second bike.

Maybe a lighter double for instance. Or a flat bar commuter, as the RDs work with Road and MTB shifters.

Yes, you're right, time to start stocking up on spare knee joints. Although, touch wood, I don't really have any health problems, despite years of neglect.

 

[TheDoctor]

OK, I've googled it and scratched my head. I'm fairly sure that SRoFA doesn't mean "Soft-Spoken Restless Outstanding Frank Adept"

http://fullyexpanded.com/abbreviation/srofa.html:
But what does it stand for? I assume it means something like "very remote".

Square Root of Feck-All.

 

[T4tomo]

9 speed was never very popular for everyday hybrid bikes in the way that 8 speed was. You can get 9 speed hybrids but at upper midmarket levels, not lower levels.
You can buy almost anything online but in bike shops I would hazard a guess that 9 speed will become unavailable before 8 speed.

irreverent reference to hybrid / flat bar popularity, when the OP has road bike shifters / gearing (bar a compatible XT rear mech presumable to accommodate a larger rear sprocket range).

 

[scotsbikester]

I have owned/fixed many bikes over my lifetime, things you might have missed:

Wheel hub bearings.
Headset bearings.
Headset crown. (They start to get pitted.)
Pedal bearings.
Front Derailleur cage. (The steel cage eventually wears too thin, due to chain contact.)
Spokes. (A few spare spokes for each wheel.)
Seatposts commonly gets stuck with corrosion, they need to be moved every year or so.
Saddles get too soft over time and lose their shape.

Yes, my experience is that it's mainly bearings that wear, but with regular maintenance they will last many years.

Thanks. I was mainly thinking of things which if they broke wouldn't be replaceable, or at least not with new, high quality equivalents. Hence why I've got 3 pairs of New Old Stock Ultegra levers, plus some good used ones, several XT M772 rear derailleurs, either NOS or good used.

But to consider your list.
The hubs are Shimano M525A, which I think are thought of as reasonably robust. The freehub is steel, rather than aluminium. I've bought Grade 10 Chromo steel balls for front and back, which I'll use to replace the stainless ones Shimano use when I service them this summer. I've already squirted some SFG into the free hub, as suggested, and use Silkoline Pro RG2 for the wheel bearings themselves. I don't ride in the rain by choice, and nowhere particularly dirty. So with maintenance I'm hoping for a long life. But I've got a spare rear hub already, that I can use to replace three quarters of the bearings. But I'm hoping that 135mm disc hubs will be available for a very long time.

The headset is loose ball (it used to be caged). I've replaced the ones that came with it with Grade 10 chrome steel ones, and relubed with Comma CV grease, which is the thickest blackest stuff I've ever seen. I have mudguards so that limits damage to lower headset. But much like the wheel hubs, I'm assuming headsets of some sort with be available for 1 1/8 steerers for a very long time. I'd not heard of headset crowns getting pitted. I'll keep an eye on that.

I haven't had the pedals long, They use loose balls. I'll get some good quality ones soon, or maybe just a refurb kit, if Shimano make one. But again, pedals are going to be available.

I've got 3 front derailleurs.

Spa gave me spare spokes when I bought the wheel. There are 3 types, I might buy a few more as spares. But I've not broken one, yet.

Yes, I move my seatpost every so often.

I've got a couple of saddles. Including a lovely Brooks which is comfy, but I couldn't get it far enough back. I'll probably put it back on when I buy a Nitto S84. I think saddles aren't going to go out of fashion soon.

I'm a "maintainer". Regular relubing with appropriate grease/oil and replacement of loose balls is something I actually enjoy. So, along with a few NOS spares as replacements, I feel comfortable this bike will see me out.

Cheers.

 

[scotsbikester]

irreverent reference to hybrid / flat bar popularity, when the OP has road bike shifters / gearing (bar a compatible XT rear mech presumable to accommodate a larger rear sprocket range).

Yup, that's why. 11-34 cassette. Maybe 12-36 next.

 

[andrew_s]

OK, I've built the bike that I think I want to ride forever. Or at least a bike of a certain type I want to ride forever, in the sense of a drop bar road bike aimed at recreational/light touring. A flat bar, or something with hub gears, or a folder or whatever, would be a different animal.

It's:
Steel Frame
68mm English BB Shell
Drop bars.
1 1/8" Threadless front end.
9 speed triple, Ultegra levers, Ultegra FD, XT RD.
Avid BB7 cable disc brakes.
135mm rear dropout spacing
700c wheels
Square taper BB with Spa crankset.
27.2 seatpost.
PD-T8000 pedals.

Seems to be almost the same as my "everlasting bike", for which I've similarly got a stock of spare bits - eg a pre-Brexit bulk buy of chains & cassettes from Rose.
I went for 8-speed, BB7 Mountain, Tektro V-brake levers, and Ultegra bar end shifters rather than STI, on a Disc Trucker.

 

[DCBassman]

If you're regularly removing cranks over that time span, certainly!

 

[IanSmithCSE]

Good morning,

Many, possibly most, people, regard Shimano STI shifters as unrepairable or unserviceable

So are you concerned that after a long period of storage a NOS item may not actually work as some grease has gone solid and something won't move or that there is a bit of plastic that has gone brittle over time and cracks on first usage?

I recently did a lot of miles on Claris and was mostly impressed by it, the brake levers felt as well made as my Ultegra ones although the cable release levers (the ones behind the brake levers) did fell like I was expecting Claris to feel; Well made buy easy to see where some improvements could be made.

The point being that it doesn't necessarily follow that cheaper new stuff is going to be naff, added to which there appears to be a sweet spot at around 8 speed where the lower selling price and running costs seem to me to massively outweigh the benefits that I get from more sprockets. So it is not out of the question that the R versions of the Shimano components will become more readily available.

Bye

Ian

 

[scotsbikester]

Concerning square taper BB and cranks.

Over 30-40 years of being used, the taper in the crank enlarges slightly. After tightening, this can result in the chainring/chain getting near to the rear chain stay and eventually hitting it.

Whether this was probably more prevalent when using cup+cone BB's, when they were disassembled at regular intervals for greasing, then the cranks tightened (over tightened?) for reassembly. Newer, no maintenance cartridge BB's, like the ubiquitous UN55 are fit and forget, but it's too early (1990's?) to tell if these suffer from the same problem.

A fix for this is to get a square taper BB with a slightly longer axle, so if you are current using a 13mm BB you could get a spare 15mm BB.

Maybe greasing, or not greasing, the BB axle could be the cause, I don't really know, but I've had a few cranks were the taper has worn over 30-40 years.

You did state everlasting bike

You're right, I did say "everlasting"! LOL

Here's my approach, which I've applied to DIY house repairs - "think like a Roman". An empire where they expected it to last a thousand years. So things like stainless steel screws/bolts on exterior fittings, so I won't end up with a nasty rusted screw head I can't extract. I don't just paint Cuprinol on fence posts, I fill a bucket with it and let them stand overnight (or longer) in it, so the end grain soaks it up. For instance.

Ditto the bike.

So thanks for the feedback about cranks. I have thought about a loose ball bottom bracket, as I like the idea of regular maintenance that involves nothing more than new balls and some high quality grease. I don't have cartridge bearings anywhere else on the bike. But I might make an exception for the BB, especially as I now have a UN55 fitted (new) and two new ones on the shelf. So that's about 60,000 miles of cycling, maybe.

And as you also think the crank hole enlarges with repeated removal/refitting, that's another reason to stick with a high quality sealed BB. I don't grease the spindle, I thought the advice was that the crank should be fitted dry. As it happens I might change the cranks to one with a better 5 bolt pattern (none hidden) which needs a longer BB. I find that hidden spider arm a nuisance. But I'll probably only do that if I can source a high quality longer BB.

 

[scotsbikester]

Good morning,

Many, possibly most, people, regard Shimano STI shifters as unrepairable or unserviceable

So are you concerned that after a long period of storage a NOS item may not actually work as some grease has gone solid and something won't move or that there is a bit of plastic that has gone brittle over time and cracks on first usage?

I recently did a lot of miles on Claris and was mostly impressed by it, the brake levers felt as well made as my Ultegra ones although the cable release levers (the ones behind the brake levers) did fell like I was expecting Claris to feel; Well made buy easy to see where some improvements could be made.

The point being that it doesn't necessarily follow that cheaper new stuff is going to be naff, added to which there appears to be a sweet spot at around 8 speed where the lower selling price and running costs seem to me to massively outweigh the benefits that I get from more sprockets. So it is not out of the question that the R versions of the Shimano components will become more readily available.

Bye

Ian

Yes, I think it's fairly certain that Shimano STIs aren't repairable. You're right, it would be a real downer to find, in 10 years, that the NOS components I've been busy accumulating are useless because the lubricant has dried out, or plastic/rubber has perished. I've got them stored inside, in a dry room away from high/low temperatures or UV. So fingers crossed that won't happen.

In Shimano I don't necessarily equate cheap with bad. The Sora STIs I initially fitted seemed pretty solid, though with a bit more plastic than I'd like compared to the 15 year old Ultegras I've fitted. One of the reason I went with "washing line" shifters, is the opinion (from elsewhere) that they last longer and the gear cables are less prone to breaking. And easier to replace if they do.

But my main reason for going for that generation of 9 speed is the compatibility across road/MTB, the improved braking performance with my BB7s, and the wide range of options for replacements, as Ultegra/105/Tiagra nine speed triple are all essentially the same.

Cheers

 

[Sallar55]

The best are Mavic, you can grease them with a gun thro the axle if you fit a grease nipple into a bolt. They are the ones which you had to prep the BB shell for the cone shaped lock rings. Have 2 on the tandem still perfect after years of cyclotouring in Southern France. Have another 2 along with a spare Mavic headset but its inch & quarter for a Cannondale tandem.

 

[fossyant]

For an everlasting square taper BB, here are some of the best for your consideration:

Phil Woods:
https://www.velodrome.shop/square-taper-jis/iso/phil-wood-bottom-bracket-cartridge/
View attachment 643674

Royce:
https://www.royceuk.co.uk/Bottom-Bracket-Axles-Tapered-Square/

View attachment 643675

Nah.

I have the very rare UN71 and the unobtanium UN91 on my two road bikes. Been there a good 25 to 30 years. Also have ever lasting Dura Ace 7400 (1990ish) cranks and 600 ones from 1986

 

[scotsbikester]

The best are Mavic, you can grease them with a gun thro the axle if you fit a grease nipple into a bolt. They are the ones which you had to prep the BB shell for the cone shaped lock rings. Have 2 on the tandem still perfect after years of cyclotouring in Southern France. Have another 2 along with a spare Mavic headset but its inch & quarter for a Cannondale tandem.

Interesting. Is it this one?
https://cicli-berlinetta.com/produc...rsal-bottom-bracket-115mm-80s-made-in-france/
Though to be honest I don't fancy chamfering the BB shell. Would it mean I could only ever fit the same BB?

I like the idea of a grease port though. Does that go on to the end of the axle/spindle? How does it get to the bearings from there?