Everyone should make the Netherlands a destination.
- Thread starter galgoman
- Start date
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- Location
- London
- Location
- London
srw
It's a bit more complicated than that...
lane
Veteran
I don't know about Holland but will find out in a few days - but in Belgium it seemed to be compulsory to use the cyclepath rather than the road. However the cycle infrstucture was excellent. We used a road by mistake and drivers were not happy.
OP
OP
galgoman
Regular
Over here in the US I would love to encounter other riders to join up with. In most parts here, it can be a suicide mission to expect any space on the roads since few places offer any bike lanes or paths. Here you first hear the deep rumble of a pick-up truck coming behind you, laying on the horn starting at least 200 meters away and the complimentary middle fingers raised out the window as they rev their engine as they pass.
lane
Veteran
I suppose there is no absolute panacea possible with competing interests, but I did find the set up in Belgium to be pretty good. Although I didn't experience any of the negative aspects described in this thread for Holland. I would also say that the surfacing of the cycle paths in Belgium was a site better than roads in the UK let alone cycle routes. So a lot less risk of an injury from potholes. Also a big thing is that cyclists have right of way when a cycle path crosses a road which makes the cycle paths much safer than in the UK. I am not a fan of many cycle paths in the UK and would often use the road instead.
Gravity Aided
Legendary Member
- Location
- Land of Lincoln
HobbesOnTour
Guru
- Location
- España
I deleted a paragraph in my original post mentioning this because I didn't want to be negative!
Yes, these are all present. Apart from the peletons, the rest don't bother me. I find the peletons to be bloody dangerous. I've been overtaken on the inside & outside simultaneously by idiot racers who "forgot" that I wasn't in a race.
My understanding is, that in Belgium the clubs are supposed to use the roads, where possible. Don't hold me to that, though.
It's the law in NL & Belgium. There's a blue sign with a white bike - that means use the cycle path. In fairness, I think there's a gulf in standards between here & the UK in bike paths.
Well, no. But they're better than the alternative. Can you imagine all that cycle traffic on roads with automobile traffic too? To get to full utopia, what's needed is paths for clubs, for tourers, for commuters, for families, for dog walkers. Really not practical.
That's not the path, or indeed the law that says you have to use it - that's the a**holes on the bikes!
I'm always amused (not in a good way) to see these folks on their expensive bikes, decked out in all their gear with their garmins.... who don't have a bell.
I got one of these a couple of years ago for when riding on roads http://distanciador.com/epages/f822...h=/Shops/f8224c01-1d0a-470e-a9f7-028c00c68cd6
Truth be told, it's a standard piece of kit for riding in NL in the summertime.
Not needed in winter 'cos they're all too soft to be out!
Another thing about it being a utopia/panacea is that you can see what happens when cycling is made extremely safe - people not using lights, not looking left or right at junctions, using their phones as they cycle.
Mind you, the exact same things happen in cars and all things considered, I'd rather be on a bike path dealing with cyclists than cars or trucks!
And my last point about a**holes in Peletons..... I've cycled to Spain & back, over to Italy & back and in my experience the further south and east you get from NL, the friendlier & more respectful the sportive cyclists become. They give you space, they call out to you, chat to you.
It's not the rules, it's not the roads, it's not the bikes - it's the humanity in control of the bikes.
HobbesOnTour
Guru
- Location
- España
[QUOTE 5259372, member: 259"] but this being Belgium, nobody pays a blind bit of notice.[/QUOTE]
And that's why I love Belgium! :-)
And that's why I love Belgium! :-)
lane
Veteran
So I am just using the excellent route planner to plan my trip to Holland and came across the following:
"LF-Routes are the long distance National Cycle Routes which cross the whole of the Netherlands from one side to another and from end to end. The LF-routes provide probably the best overall combination of path surface quality, signposting, scenery and separation from cars but they consequently attract the largest amount of recreational cycle traffic (including pelatons of racers training at speed near urban areas).
This profile uses the LF network, unless you specify route points that are not on the LF network. Outside the LF network, the route uses the numbered junction network and then the limited stops profile."
"LF-Routes are the long distance National Cycle Routes which cross the whole of the Netherlands from one side to another and from end to end. The LF-routes provide probably the best overall combination of path surface quality, signposting, scenery and separation from cars but they consequently attract the largest amount of recreational cycle traffic (including pelatons of racers training at speed near urban areas).
This profile uses the LF network, unless you specify route points that are not on the LF network. Outside the LF network, the route uses the numbered junction network and then the limited stops profile."
swansonj
Guru
By coincidence we have spent the last two days on LF1, the North Sea coast route in Holland.
You certainly get every sort of cyclist from trad roadsters to carbon, with a really significant representation of e-bikes mostly ridden by middle aged or older riders.
Particularly yesterday (Sunday) we certainly encountered sporty pelotons going fast. And they don't slow down. But actually, none of the passes (in either direction) felt actually dangerous -close and fast perhaps, inconsiderate perhaps, slightly stress inducing perhaps, but within my personal live and let live tolerance.
Likewise as pedestrians in the evenings, you need your wits about you as cyclists appear from every direction in decidedly random ways. But why shouldn't they once the tyranny of cars is broken, and that too is well within my personal live and let live tolerance.
I am aware that our experience may be different from other people's for all sorts of reasons.
You certainly get every sort of cyclist from trad roadsters to carbon, with a really significant representation of e-bikes mostly ridden by middle aged or older riders.
Particularly yesterday (Sunday) we certainly encountered sporty pelotons going fast. And they don't slow down. But actually, none of the passes (in either direction) felt actually dangerous -close and fast perhaps, inconsiderate perhaps, slightly stress inducing perhaps, but within my personal live and let live tolerance.
Likewise as pedestrians in the evenings, you need your wits about you as cyclists appear from every direction in decidedly random ways. But why shouldn't they once the tyranny of cars is broken, and that too is well within my personal live and let live tolerance.
I am aware that our experience may be different from other people's for all sorts of reasons.
