Expected Warrenty/Customer Service?

[John_c]

Hi,
Looking for some views on the following, on behalf of a friend who I think is getting a raw deal from a local bike shop and the respective manufacturer.

Basically he has recently bought (last couple of months) a 2012 Cube GTC Pro from a well known bike shop, who for now will remain nameless, paying over £1,500.

After just a few 100 miles, the bike developed a clicking noise from the bottom bracket as well as a loose left break lever.

He rang the said bike shop, who said bring it back and we'll take a look. That was over a week ago. He took the bike back (a round trip of nearly 300miles). whilst there they stripped the bike and said that the frame had been scored where the push fit BB inserts?, and they'd have to get a new frame from Cube.

Well numerous calls and over 1 week later, the bike is still in the shop with still no idea of how long it will take to get a replacement frame? current estimates are another 1.5 wks

The shop are saying its a warrenty issue, and takes time to process with Cube?

My mate asked for a replacement bike, and the shop have said no, only the frame needs replacing.

Is it just me or do you think hes getting a raw deal?

I think he should be contacting Cube direct, whats your view?

 

[Pauluk]

He could contact Cube to ask them about delivery of the frame to the shop but his contract is with the dealer/shop not Cube. IMO Cube may be helpful it depends how they feel about talking to the public and what issues they have with stock.

It may be a case that Cube only stock a limited number of spare frames so it depends where the source of the frames are. If one has to come by ship it could take weeks, if they're in Europe then its not too bad.

It may just be the case that they are a bit slow as the shop has said.

 

[vernon]

He could seek advice from his local citizens advice bureau.[QUOTE 1999680, member: 45"]His contract is with the store, not Cube. If can insist on a refund, and could then buy a new bike, so he's within his rights to ask for a replacement.[/quote]

Not strictly true.

Here's some advice from the Consumers' Association:

Rejecting' a faulty product

If you want to return a product and get your money back, under the Sale of Goods Act you have the right to 'reject' an item that is not of 'satisfactory quality'.
As soon as you've noticed, you should note the retailer. You only have a limited time – usually only a few weeks – to reject something. Many retailers will offer a replacement, repair or refund without question, especially if the item is relatively new.
If you don't want to reject something, or it's too late to, it's worth simply phoning or visiting the retailer to explain the problem. In the first six months from when you get an item, the onus is on the seller to prove the item was of satisfactory quality when you received it. If the seller simply says the problem must be due to something you've done, it's for them to prove that.
But if the retailer doesn't, you have several other options for getting the problem sorted.

The store does appear to be doing all it can to remedy the situation by making good the fault. It's not the store's fault that the component is not available on demand.

 

[vernon]

[QUOTE 1999738, member: 45"]From the Which site...

If you want to get your money back

If you buy a product that turns out to be faulty, you can choose to 'reject' it: give it back and get your money back. However, the law gives you only a 'reasonable' time to do this – what is reasonable depends on the product and how obvious the fault is. However, even with something like a car, you usually have no more than three to four weeks from when you receive it to reject it.[/quote]

And the owner of the bike has had it for a couple of months which seems to negate the advice in the above paragraph.....

My advice was also from the Which site BTW which essentially says the same as your chosen paragraph.

Back to square one.....

 

[asterix]

He could seek advice from his local citizens advice bureau.

Not strictly true.

Here's some advice from the Consumers' Association:

Rejecting' a faulty product

If you want to return a product and get your money back, under the Sale of Goods Act you have the right to 'reject' an item that is not of 'satisfactory quality'.
As soon as you've noticed, you should note the retailer. You only have a limited time – usually only a few weeks – to reject something. Many retailers will offer a replacement, repair or refund without question, especially if the item is relatively new.
If you don't want to reject something, or it's too late to, it's worth simply phoning or visiting the retailer to explain the problem. In the first six months from when you get an item, the onus is on the seller to prove the item was of satisfactory quality when you received it. If the seller simply says the problem must be due to something you've done, it's for them to prove that.
But if the retailer doesn't, you have several other options for getting the problem sorted.

The store does appear to be doing all it can to remedy the situation by making good the fault. It's not the store's fault that the component is not available on demand.

I'd suggest that the shop has accepted the goods were faulty when supplied. In which case they should refund the buyers money rather than quibble about some vague time limit. And I would agree that the contract is with the supplier and not the manufacturer. So I think the shop should pay up. Now.

DO take things back as quickly as possible

If something's faulty, in other words it breaks the SadFart rules, returning it speedily is crucial.

• Within four weeks. You can usually still get a full refund as you're unlikely to be seen as having 'accepted' the goods. After that only expect exchange, repair or part-refund.
• Within six months. The shop must prove goods weren't faulty when they sold 'em – after that you must prove they were.
  
  Now hopefully it won't confuse matters – but these time limits define when you should take faulty goods back and are totally separate to the 'reasonable length of time' bit in the SadFart rules – which defines what counts as faulty in the first place.
  For what is 'reasonable' it depends situation by situation – just imagine asking a sensible friend's opinion. If you asked 'is it reasonable for a £2,000 plasma telly to break after nine months', they'd probably say no, but it probably is for a 50p torch.
  Act as soon as possible
  
  The crucial point here is whether you've been deemed to have 'accepted' the goods, while there's no standard definition, as it depends on the circumstances, a couple of factors impact this:
  
  • How long you've taken to respond
    
    How long shoppers have to check if goods are shoddy, or service has been done properly, depends on what's reasonable for that specific thing.
    
    So while it could take six weeks to check that repairs fix a leaky roof, you can tell in hours if a Bluray player works.
    
    After this time, you're likely to have accepted the goods and your rights are lowered.
  The Things Everyone Should Know
  
  
  This should be taught at school - everyone should know their basic statutory rights for shopping - in other words the rights you have by law which a shop can't change.
  Know these and you can enforce fair treatment. It's so crucial you should actually memorise it, to help our mnemonic is to call them your 'Sad Fart' rights, as when you buy goods they must be...
  
  
  
  This applies even if you buy things in a sale or with a discount voucher. Frankly, every customer facing member of staff should be taught these rules before they're allowed to work, yet as they're not - instead we need to be polite and persistent quoting the rights.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange#act

 

[asterix]

Hi,

Basically he has recently bought (last couple of months) a 2012 Cube GTC Pro from a well known bike shop, who for now will remain nameless, paying over £1,500.

A bit of crude detective work, based on the OPs location and the manufacturer's dealer list suggests there is not an Infinite number of bike shops this is likely to be!

 

[swee'pea99]

"My mate asked for a replacement bike, and the shop have said no, only the frame needs replacing."

They cannot say no. He didn't buy a frame; he bought a bike. It's faulty. He has every right to an immediate refund or replacement. I'd go in and demand my money back, period, then take my custom elsewhere. Any commercial organisation that behaves that way isn't one I'd be happy to do business with.

 

[Archie_tect]

I agree with SP99. He should argue that it would cost the Cube and the LBS considerably more in labour to strip the bike down and rebuild it, rather than just refund his money or get a complete replacement bike, instead of a frame, delivered from Cube.
...unless Cube really are happy to pay the LBS's labour charges?

 

[biggs682]

somebody i know had a problem with there Halfords supplied bike and even halfords replaced the frame as per the makers instructions , it did take a few weeks for a frame to filter through the system

 

[John_c]

Many thanks for the replies, I'll pass them on for his consideration.

Cheers.

 

[Risex4]

"My mate asked for a replacement bike, and the shop have said no, only the frame needs replacing."

They cannot say no. He didn't buy a frame; he bought a bike. It's faulty. He has every right to an immediate refund or replacement. I'd go in and demand my money back, period, then take my custom elsewhere. Any commercial organisation that behaves that way isn't one I'd be happy to do business with.

Actually, yes they can. The "right to refund" is actually a bit of a myth. There are ways of enacting it in this scenerio, but there is no blanket legal right to a straight return.

Its hard to say as John_c only stipulated "a couple of months", but typically I would guess this time frame would be seen as long enough for his friend to have "accepted" the goods in the legal sense. Once goods are "accepted", there is no right to refund; only right to remedy (and acceptance can't be 'revoked'). A refund is one remedy, a repair without cost to the customer is another. The supplier is well within its right to offer whatever remedy it deems most suitable - in this case a repair - and more importantly it is the supplier's right to determine what remedy they will offer (within certain considerations); the customer cannot 'choose' what is done.

In this scenerio, given the fact the fault appeared to develop and and the time elapsed, the only hope to getting a guaranteed return would have been to reject the offer of a repair, and had the bike independently assessed in the hopes of being able to identify that the fault was mechanically inherrent. As the remedy offered has been accepted, we are now playing with the line in the Sales of Goods act which refers to remedies not causing significant inconvenience. Unless the friend has a very real use for the bike beyond leisure (if, for example, it was used on a long commute where other forms of transport were unavailable or impracticle say) then a two week repair time would proably not be deemed significant inconvenience.

What the retailer is doing is perfectly fine - in the legal sense.

Whether its good customer service is of cource an entirely different argument.

 

[swee'pea99]

Actually, yes they can. The "right to refund" is actually a bit of a myth. There are ways of enacting it in this scenerio, but there is no blanket legal right to a straight return.

Its hard to say as John_c only stipulated "a couple of months", but typically I would guess this time frame would be seen as long enough for his friend to have "accepted" the goods in the legal sense. Once goods are "accepted", there is no right to refund; only right to remedy (and acceptance can't be 'revoked'). A refund is one remedy, a repair without cost to the customer is another. The supplier is well within its right to offer whatever remedy it deems most suitable - in this case a repair - and more importantly it is the supplier's right to determine what remedy they will offer (within certain considerations); the customer cannot 'choose' what is done.

In this scenerio, given the fact the fault appeared to develop and and the time elapsed, the only hope to getting a guaranteed return would have been to reject the offer of a repair, and had the bike independently assessed in the hopes of being able to identify that the fault was mechanically inherrent. As the remedy offered has been accepted, we are now playing with the line in the Sales of Goods act which refers to remedies not causing significant inconvenience. Unless the friend has a very real use for the bike beyond leisure (if, for example, it was used on a long commute where other forms of transport were unavailable or impracticle say) then a two week repair time would proably not be deemed significant inconvenience.

What the retailer is doing is perfectly fine - in the legal sense.

Whether its good customer service is of cource an entirely different argument.

I stand corrected. Also surprised.

 

[Chris R]

Hi everyone, I am the mate in question with the faulty Cube Agree GTC Pro. The problem was noticed on Saturday 11th August whilst climbing only. I rang the bike shop and they advised to drop it in. It was only 6 weeks since i received the bike so was due a free service anyway. I advised the shop that i thought it was the bottom bracket bearing. I was advised the shop carries these in stock anyway so wouldn't be a problem.
I returned the bike on Wednesday 15th August and spoke to the shops mechanic. He advised me that he had known the bearings to come in from Cube "a little dry". We left the bikeshop and went off for a few hours. Upon return i was shown the problem being a groove worn into the drive side of the frame and the press fit bottom bracket fitting into the frame loosely. At this point the mechanic rang Cube in Holland and was advised that it would be a warrenty repair and would need a new frame. He advised me that he would have to rebuild my bike onto the new frame rather than provide a new bike. I left the shop very disappointed that i would be without a bike for an unknown period of time.
I rang the bike shop on the Friday morning and spoke to the mechanic again. He advised me he had emailed the photo's of the frame to cube and to expect a call with a solution on the monday morning. I was also advised that Cube are about to release 2013 bikes so the replacement frame would be a 2013 model so couldnt tell me how long it was going to take.
I waited on monday for a call as promised but nothing. I rang the shop on the tuesday and was advised it was the mechanics day off and that they would get him to call me first thing wednesday morning. I rang the bike shop at 4pm yesterday after no call from the mechanic as promised and spoke to the assistant manager. I was informed that cube would be providing me with a 2013 Cube Agree GTC Di2 frame (slightly different paint scheme to the GTC Pro frame) I advised this wouldnt be acceptable as this is not the bike that i purchased. He advised me the store manager was back the next day (today) and he would get him to call me to resolve.
The store manager rang me at 9:15 this morning and was very apologetic and helpful. I advised him that i wasnt happy at being offered the Di2 frame as this would be like driving a 3 series BMW with an M3 badge stuck on, ie ridiculous, as the Di2 frame clearly has this logo as part of the paint scheme. He rang cube and rang me back to advise that the frame is the correct frame and doesnt have Di2 decalls on it. Hopefully this should be acceptable, however Cube are not willing to send me photo's as the 2013 model has not been officially launched yet.
They are expecting the new frame in the shop next week and will give it total priority to be rebuilt and delivered. If the frame is not acceptable, it will be rejected by myself.

 

[Chris R]

any further thoughts anyone?