Experiences of taking an ebike on a train?

[Anthony-C]

But as above, using a fake sticker might seem harmless but is almost a guarantee of a prison sentence, suspended if you're lucky and if your previous record permits.
[...]
To even consider it would be stupidity of the first order. It seems a harmless wheeze, but people don't seem to appreciatew what bad ju=ju any type of deception is in the eyes of the law.

This is really worrying. A lot of kit and DIY (i.e. from parts) builders do all they can to make their bikes EN15194 compliant, both to avoid seizure and to just do the right thing. Having a sticker is part of compliance and not having one has been used as grounds for seizure, so in effect they're obliged to fit one, often self-made to show compliance information without falsely claiming type approval or UKCA.

I've very little confidence that magistrates would appreciate that distinction and that no deception was intended. Equally the police have been inconsistent in understanding that Throttles are legal provided they only function while pedalling or below 4mph (unless in use before 2016), so what hope is there with labels?

BTW in London gaffa tape is to deter battery theft, better warnings are vulnerable or damaged wiring and 'dinner-plate' motors.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

This is really worrying. A lot of kit and DIY (i.e. from parts) builders do all they can to make their bikes EN15194 compliant, both to avoid seizure and to just do the right thing. Having a sticker is part of compliance and not having one has been used as grounds for seizure, so in effect they're obliged to fit one, often self-made to show compliance information without falsely claiming type approval or UKCA.

I've very little confidence that magistrates would appreciate that distinction and that no deception was intended. Equally the police have been inconsistent in understanding that Throttles are legal provided they only function while pedalling or below 4mph (unless in use before 2016), so what hope is there with labels?

BTW in London gaffa tape is to deter battery theft, better warnings are vulnerable or damaged wiring and 'dinner-plate' motors.

Throttles are also legal under 2 other circumstances
a) if the bike was first sold (or made??) before 2016 - but it has to comply with ALL the pre 2016 reg - including max power 200W not 250W

b) it you have Single Vehicle Approval from the DVLA - or something like that

both pretty rare nowadays - although I can imagine there are a few "vintage" pre 2016 ebikes around - possibly even some from the pre Li battery era
I think Wispa did some ebikes where they would sort out the DVLA certificate for you for a charge

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I have had a reply from Cycling UK
I will copy it here

Hi Michael, many thanks for your support Emma, and apologies for the delay responding. It has been a hectic week.
Yes, they are banning all EAPCs unless they are folding e0bikes, including at train stations. The folding e-bike exemption has not been thought through. There is no requirement for your folding e-bike to be folded, to be exempt.

As it's taken a few days to reply, I will also give you a short update.

We received a response from Merseyrail on Thursday, again refusing to meet with us and still refusing to disclose their safety report. I will be escalating that to a complain to the Rail Ombudsman next week.

95 people have sent us their case studies, explaining how this ban will affect them. We are summarising those into a document we will share with Steve Rotherham on Wednesday, in advance of a meeting he (and I suspect Simion O'Brien) has with Merseyrail on Friday.

We have been in touch with both Steve Rotherham and Simon O'Brien, with the former expressing his support in broad terms - see Liverpool Echo piece here Merseyrail could have to reconsider 'devastating' e-bike ban - Liverpool Echo

In the meantime, the numbers do make a difference, so if you are able to nudge anyone either to send a complaint to Merseyrail Merseyrail fail - bin the blanket e-bike ban | Cycling UK or to email their MP Merseyrail e-bike ban - write to your MP | Cycling UK, or both, that would be hugely appreciated.

Do shout if you have any questions.




So we shall see what happens!!

 

[Dogtrousers]

I took my ordinary bike on an intercity train last week. It a big-ish frame but it squeezed into the silly little compartment they provide. However the next bike to go in was a mountain e-bike.

I helped the owner but it was an incredible struggle to get something as big and heavy in there. Fortunately my bike didn't get damaged in the process but I was worried. I don't know but I wouldn't have been surprised if it had exceeded the 25kg limit.

Picture of the 2 bike compartment on an LNER East Coast line Avanti here: https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/y...r-railway-station.286059/page-27#post-7693238

 

[All uphill]

I was on Exeter station this morning where two transport police officers were "in discussion" with a man . He had been ejected from the London to Penzance train with his battery powered bike/motor bike. It looked like an illegal one to me - taped on battery, motorbike fork, huge hub motor.

Good to see.

 

[mjr]

I was on Exeter station this morning where two transport police officers were "in discussion" with a man . He had been ejected from the London to Penzance train with his battery powered bike/motor bike. It looked like an illegal one to me - taped on battery, motorbike fork, huge hub motor.

Good to see.

Of that description, only a huge hub motor is likely to make it an illegal motorbike, which is why they should ban dodgy batteries in their own right, because that's the fire risk.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Of that description, only a huge hub motor is likely to make it an illegal motorbike, which is why they should ban dodgy batteries in their own right, because that's the fire risk.

How do you define/recognise a dodgy battery

OK - the gaffa tape is a clue
but someone could easily put tape all over a perfectly good battery to make it look less "nickable"

and they have to try to have things they can point at that clearly shows it is dodgy
and a hub motor the size of a dinner plate is an almost certain indication of a dodgy motor

as is a throttle - although there are circumstances where that is OK but they are rare

 

[Drago]

How do you define/recognise a dodgy battery

Being on fire can be a giveaway.

 

[mjr]

How do you define/recognise a dodgy battery

OK - the gaffa tape is a clue
but someone could easily put tape all over a perfectly good battery to make it look less "nickable"

A size limit is probably one useful thing the railways could do, as it seems the dodgy motorbike battery fires are worse than the early mobile device battery fires partly because the batteries are so much bigger.

Another would be to require some certification sticker or other. Yes, someone can put a fake sticker on something, but the penalty for fraud by deception is probably greater than the penalty for a luggage offence, so I don't know if many would bother.

and they have to try to have things they can point at that clearly shows it is dodgy
and a hub motor the size of a dinner plate is an almost certain indication of a dodgy motor

as is a throttle - although there are circumstances where that is OK but they are rare

Do they? I thought the railways with e-bike bans had just banned all non-folding e-bikes without considering anything to point at.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

A size limit is probably one useful thing the railways could do, as it seems the dodgy motorbike battery fires are worse than the early mobile device battery fires partly because the batteries are so much bigger.

Another would be to require some certification sticker or other. Yes, someone can put a fake sticker on something, but the penalty for fraud by deception is probably greater than the penalty for a luggage offence, so I don't know if many would bother.


Do they? I thought the railways with e-bike bans had just banned all non-folding e-bikes without considering anything to point at.

Isn;t that just MerseyRail
and they are coming under pressure to change that

 

[classic33]

Isn;t that just MerseyRail
and they are coming under pressure to change that

Non-folding e-bikes have been banned by Network Rail from stations they own.

The same as any property owner is allowed to do. Decide what they allow onto their property, so long as they're not discriminating. And any claims for what some have been calling "reasonable adjustment" under the Equalities Act, has to be done on a case by case basis. There is no blanket approach to reasonable adjustment under the Equalities Act, despite what some people feel.

 

[toffee]

How do you define/recognise
as is a throttle - although there are circumstances where that is OK but they are rare

They are more popular than you think. I have a Mirider which has a throttle.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

They are more popular than you think. I have a Mirider which has a throttle.

How is it legal

I know that pre 206 ebikes are - I used to have one

do you have something from the DVLA or is there another route?

I would worry about being stopped and having trouble convincing a Police Officer that my bike was legal despite having a throttle

not that I want one - when I had one I seldom used it anyway

 

[ktmbiker58]

I wonder what the actual data on e-bike safety is: what evidence based risk analysis are the train operators using to justify a ban?

 

[toffee]

How is it legal

I know that pre 206 ebikes are - I used to have one

do you have something from the DVLA or is there another route?

I would worry about being stopped and having trouble convincing a Police Officer that my bike was legal despite having a throttle

not that I want one - when I had one I seldom used it anyway

Because it only works while you are peddling. Stop peddling and the assistance stops