Family of dead cyclist sued by driver that killed him.

[shouldbeinbed]

as to the topic. Seems that claim and counter claim is the way they go across the Atlantic.

its.almost like the M.A.D. model of nuclear deterrent, if you do it to me. I'll do the same to you.

the only winners will be the lawyers.

 

[Salad Dodger]

While I think the driver is an arse, I remember driving down a well lit suburban road, with my headlights on, when I noticed something white on the road. First I thought it was rubbish, then I decided it may be a cat, so swerved to avoid it. As I passed, I realised they were white trainers and someone was wearing them. I'm not sure how she was so invisible, but if she had been wearing dark shoes, I would have hit her full on - 60 kph - and probably killed her. I wasn't distracted, I wasn't looking away just somehow she was perfectly camouflaged.

Just saying.

I, too, have had a similar experience. One winter's evening, about 7pm. A dogwalker, dressed all in black, walking a black dog, stepped out of a footpath onto the road, which has no pavement or lights along that stretch. I saw something - maybe the dog's eyes or sparkle from it's chain/collar and swerved to avoid an impact. Had the dog and owner been one or two steps quicker, I might well have hit them. Fortunately, I was going relatively slowly - maybe 20mph. I consider myself to be a slow and cautious driver.

But presumably, as I was at the wheel of a merciless killing machine, I should have been going even slower, as the responsibility obviously rests entirely upon me to avoid the actions of an inappropriately dressed person, even if they walk out into the road without looking at all. That's how it works when you drive a car, (or at least according to some on this forum) isn't it? Or maybe it only applies if you hit an unlit ninja cyclist, not an unlit ninja pedestrian?

Either way, I hope with all my heart that we never arrive at the position in this country that the family of a dead cyclist can be sued by the driver that killed him/her......

 

[summerdays]

slight devils advocate but not having/using lights and excusing it does annoy me.

you can get lights that permanantly affix to bikes.

if your lights switch on in your bag either get lights with a better switch, remove or carry some spare batteries if the AA type (2 or 4 are REALLY that much extra bulk & weight?) or disconnect the power pack from the light if its of that type. You recognise a problem and refuse to mitigate it.

I barely ever drive my car after dark in the summer, (accepting its illegal but in 28 years of having a car I have never once been pulled over in daylight and asked to prove the lights work) would it be morally ok for me to remove the bulbs to save the wear and tear of potholes on wafer thin filaments between April and September?
---------------------------
*general opinion not aimed at summerdays*
its not as if we're being expected to drag a prisoners iron ankle ball around with us and if the aesthetic of even a tiny pair (lezyne femto for e.g.) of cheap totally unobtrusive get you seen in an emergency lights causes someone inconvenience or concern then I'd suggest they seek professional help.

If you carry lights in your bag all summer never using them, then use them, you can find they go on but don't last long. I actually often do have a rear light in my bag cos I have so much in it that it gets lost at the bottom.

Lights are different from in a car as on the car they are attached and unlikely to be nicked, and used more frequently.

I've already said that I mostly cycle in the daylight at this time of year, and I carry lights if I think I may need them such as the possibility of bad weather, or intending to be out late enough to need them. In winter I even carry back up lights that are easily lent to friends if needed but not very strong. But it doesn't mean that I've not been caught out by assuming I've got working lights (hope lights so no warning of fading batteries). Just not frequently.

Do you carry a first aid kit? I do, and apart from the wipes it gets used a lot less than my lights. But I have stopped to offer bits to others.

 

[ComedyPilot]

I've seen loads of unlit cyclists whilst driving at night.


I haven't hit one yet........and given that I am looking for anything out of the ordinary, I don't think I ever will hit one.....because I'm looking.


There is zero excuse for hitting/killing another human being. If you can't stop in the distance you can see to be clear in front of your car then you're going too fast.

If we keep pampering to myopic, careless, dangerous, couldn't-give-a-toss drivers then the roads will never be safe.

 

[shouldbeinbed]

Do you carry a first aid kit? I do, and apart from the wipes it gets used a lot less than my lights. But I have stopped to offer bits to others.

yes I do, much for myself tidying up the odd tumble graze and hopefully giving myself a bit of a better chance in a bad one, but I've done the same and stopped to offer help to others. My space blanket has never folded back as small as it did after that was sadly called into use, for a pedestrian floored by a turning bus, before the ambulance got there - not sure what the point you're making is though, it gets dark every day it isn't a surprise or unusual event like the first aid emergencies that you or I have happened upon.

 

[theclaud]

I, too, have had a similar experience. One winter's evening, about 7pm. A dogwalker, dressed all in black, walking a black dog, stepped out of a footpath onto the road, which has no pavement or lights along that stretch. I saw something - maybe the dog's eyes or sparkle from it's chain/collar and swerved to avoid an impact. Had the dog and owner been one or two steps quicker, I might well have hit them. Fortunately, I was going relatively slowly - maybe 20mph. I consider myself to be a slow and cautious driver.

But presumably, as I was at the wheel of a merciless killing machine, I should have been going even slower, as the responsibility obviously rests entirely upon me to avoid the actions of an inappropriately dressed person, even if they walk out into the road without looking at all. That's how it works when you drive a car, (or at least according to some on this forum) isn't it? Or maybe it only applies if you hit an unlit ninja cyclist, not an unlit ninja pedestrian?

Either way, I hope with all my heart that we never arrive at the position in this country that the family of a dead cyclist can be sued by the driver that killed him/her......

Does your car not have headlights?

Mind you, there is a stealth dog that sometimes appears in my local boozer. A black lab that you never notice moving about until suddenly it licks your hands. Most disconcerting. So perhaps there is something in this magic invisible dog theory. But probably not.

 

[shouldbeinbed]

If you carry lights in your bag all summer never using them,I don't carry them in a bag I leave them on the bike year round - and tend to favour the daytime running light, then use them, you can find they go on but don't last long hence spare batteries . I actually often do have a rear light in my bag cos I have so much in it that it gets lost at the bottom.

Lights are different from in a car as on the car they are attached and unlikely to be nicked, and used more frequently - as said mine in the summer are barely used at all, why do I need the bulbs in them where their fine filament can be prone to road buzz and potholes - far less wearing out of the bulbs if I don't carry them because I barely ever need them.

I've already said that I mostly cycle in the daylight at this time of year likewise me with the car and I carry lights if I think I may need them such as the possibility of bad weather, or intending to be out late enough to need them. In winter I even carry back up lights that are easily lent to friends if needed but not very strong. But it doesn't mean that I've not been caught out by assuming I've got working lights (hope lights so no warning of fading batteries) - still only 4 x AA's to carry, not the contents of the garage but yes, I got rid of my hope 1 for just this reason, it was a PITA when it dies in the middle of nowhere without a clue first, I'm happier with a more reliable light - I also found mine could judder itself into darkness too if the road was bad enough. Just not frequently.

Do you carry a first aid kit? I do, and apart from the wipes it gets used a lot less than my lights. so on balance of probabilities, a set of spare batteries is a better idea if you have to make a choice on what to carry and what to omit But I have stopped to offer bits to others.

 

[Dragonwight]

From what I can ascertain of this lights are not actually a legal requirement for a cyclist in Canada if they have approved reflectors which two of the three did have. Given she admitted speeding I cant see her claim stacking up. They also seem to have the dreaded police investigating themselves disease which we used to have here in the UK.

 

[Custom24]

I feel awful. That poor kid I killed. It's really eating me up inside. I can't sleep properly at night, I can't eat. It's been a few months now. They say time is a healer, but I can't see how I'm going to be able to move on with my life. I know, I'll sue the kid's family.

What the fark?

 

[Tyke]

This may be in another country but it could happen anyplace. What if as many of us are car drivers you hit a black car on a dark road driving with no lights would the be feeling the same or would you blame the other driver? While I think this is wrong I can see ware it comes from. For £32 a year BC insurance (Other insurance may be available) can go a long way to helping in this situation but until it becomes something we are forced to have far too many will go without and blame the car driver or take the chance of being sued,
Insurance and good lights should be a must and you can have both for less than £50 why take the risk.

 

[Mad Doug Biker]

If you carry lights in your bag all summer never using them, then use them, you can find they go on but don't last long. I actually often do have a rear light in my bag cos I have so much in it that it gets lost at the bottom.

Lights are different from in a car as on the car they are attached and unlikely to be nicked, and used more frequently.

I've already said that I mostly cycle in the daylight at this time of year, and I carry lights if I think I may need them such as the possibility of bad weather, or intending to be out late enough to need them. In winter I even carry back up lights that are easily lent to friends if needed but not very strong. But it doesn't mean that I've not been caught out by assuming I've got working lights (hope lights so no warning of fading batteries). Just not frequently.

Do you carry a first aid kit? I do, and apart from the wipes it gets used a lot less than my lights. But I have stopped to offer bits to others.

My lights live on my bikes all year round, and I'll only take them off when I'm somewhere where they might get nicked. The go straight back on when I return.
Yes, I might not need them much at this time of year, but it doesn't matter, I'd rather be safe than sorry.*

To be fair, I learned my lesson a few years back after getting a hire bike without any lights for a few days. All was ok until I was caught out one night and had to cycle 6 miles back to where I was staying over a remote, unlit and potentially dangerous roads without any pavements of any description whatsoever.

I stopped every time I saw a car coming and got well out of the way, but, still, I learned my lesson THAT night!


* - That said, if I am on a path away from a road that I know well, then I have been known to cycle without my lights switched on and just rely on my night vision. Its surprising just how much more you can see out there!

 

[ComedyPilot]

I must come from another planet.....

What is the obsession with black 'thing' and a dark night with no lights just suddenly appearing....?

I have yet in 30 years of driving/riding to hit anything unlit on the road.

When you get in a vehicle at night and turn the lights on a beam falls onto the road in front of you. If you CANNOT bring your vehicle safely to a stop in the length of that beam of light, then you are driving without due care as a minimum and dangerously as, well, the seemingly 'excusable' norm?

These strange black 'things' are there. You can't see them because they are outside the beam of your headlights - although I would argue most vehicles/bikes would have some shiny/reflective part on them that would show up well before your beam hits them (if you are looking that is).

I have zero fear of hitting something when driving, but I do worry about being hit from behind from a 'normal' driver as I slow down for a hazard I have spotted well in front.

Yesterday I drove Mrs CP's car to town to drop off some items at the recycling. On the way I saw 3 people walking away from town (in daylight) on the wrong side of the road (not facing traffic). Now, not only were they doing this but there wasn't a path to walk on, so they would be on the road for the next 4 miles. I carried out the errand and set off back. All the way through the 40 limit I had Mr black Golf 'pushing' me to go faster by tailgating me. I entered the national speed limit and accelerated away and opened a 30 metre gap. The road bends to the right and as the road straightened I spotted the shape of the 3 walkers about half a mile in the distance, and if I could see them, the so could any car driver following me (if they were looking....). Here was my position on streetview the walkers were in the distance under the trees.
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=e...=rJ7Kjvo0qgXkTNYBzNS0Yw&cbp=12,260.02,,0,1.47

I got closer to the walkers who were by now on a left hand kink in the road, so I slowed down due to oncoming traffic, and not wanting to endanger vulnerable road users with a close pass at 60mph. The walkers moved onto the grass here as I approached by now doing about 45mph - with a black Golf trying to save fuel by slipstreaming me, and looking to try and pass (into oncoming traffic) -

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=e...=zi9LPszRijOf30aZQS26-g&cbp=12,260.02,,1,1.47

Once past I accelerated away from the Golf, but there are 50mph, 40mph and 30mph limts ahead. Mr Golf seemed to be doing about 55mph in the national speed limits, so dropped back, but closed up on me and restricted his forward vision by being too close in the limits.

It's bad enough that we don't have enough police to patrol roads and make drivers more aware. It's also a bad do that courts do not hand down tougher penalties for all driving offences. It's also a pain to have to put up with the media's pro-motoring stance (Fast Car/Top Gear/Performace Car/F1) that influences some drivers. But it is worst when vulnerable road users have to voice their concerns and other equally vulnerable road users make excuses in favour of bad driving.

Well, don't count me in your camp. No matter what the road/weather/light/visibility condition if you drive carefully you will never hit anything. Stop making excuses for bad driving.

 

[PK99]

Either way, I hope with all my heart that we never arrive at the position in this country that the family of a dead cyclist can be sued by the driver that killed him/her......

A thought experiment:

You are cycling in (say) london, at around 20/25mph. (not untypical for some of the videos from folks such as Gaz
A pedestrian runs from the pavement without looking and you collide with him.
He falls backwards, hits his head on the kerb and dies.
You fall sideways into the traffic stream and sustain life changing injuries.
Do you sue his estate?

 

[ComedyPilot]

Don't want to seem like a killjoy, but I wouldn't ride at 20-25mph anywhere near pedestrians for that very reason.

 

[PK99]

Don't want to seem like a killjoy, but I wouldn't ride at 20-25mph anywhere near pedestrians for that very reason.

Neither would I, but often see commuting folks doing it along the Kingston road in SW19, perfectly legal and keeping up with the traffic flow.

In the thought experiment, should the now disabled cyclist claim on the estate of the dead pedestrian?