Fireback for open fire.

[trj977]

I have an open fireplace, basically a big squareish hole where a fireplace was once installed. In this we have a big fire basket 22 x 12 ins where we burn smokeless fuel. Unfortunately the back and sides of the big hole are just brick. I am looking for something to stand in front of the brick, particularly at the back to protect it. This would need to be about 30 x 30 ins.
Any ideas of what would be suitable, cast iron? I have seen some cast iron "fire backs" but at £300 upwards a bit steep for me.
Help gratefully appreciated.

 

[Chromatic]

http://www.real-fire.co.uk/vermiculite-2-c.asp

This might help.

 

[trj977]

[QUOTE 2768643, member: 9609"]If they are very small bricks (baby bricks) then that's what they are design for, however going by the size you give I am thinking the original fire enclosure has been removed, and what you can see is the structure of the house. so not a good idea to have open fires. Does your fireplace narrow into a 'throat" at the bottom of the chimney?[/quote]

Yes the original enclosure has been removed. It does not narrow into a throat that I can see. If you look up you can see an oblong opening smaller than the actual opening in depth but that looks to be because of a lintel for the front of the chimney breast.
They appear to be small bricks 1 3/4 x 2 1/2 approx. Don't think they are the actual wall as there seems to be about a 2 in difference in depth from side of the chimney breast when measured inside and outside the enclosure to the wall.

 

[Ganymede]

Better than anything would be a woodburning stove, but you're talking buying and installing expenses

 

[trj977]

http://www.real-fire.co.uk/vermiculite-2-c.asp

This might help.

Many thanks.
Bit concerned about the fire resistant classification. I would have thought it would need to be fire proof. However I may call them directly to enquire.

 

[trj977]

Better than anything would be a woodburning stove, but you're talking buying and installing expenses

Yes I agree but 2 problems.

Cost and my wife does not like them!

 

[Ganymede]

Yes I agree but 2 problems.

Cost and my wife does not like them!

Send your wife round to my house! Sooooo much better than open fires... warm, cheerful (with window in front), use much much less wood, cleaner both environmentally and for the house (less dust/smoke/soot). You can still grill your marshmallows or toast by opening the door, you can cook a stew on top or mull some wine... MMMMMMMM!!!!

But yes they do cost upfront, alas. You'd need a chimney liner for a start.

 

[Over The Hill]

On the same site at #2 are proper fire backs. The kick outwards on the top is to throw some heat outwards into the room.

I cannot recall the stats but an open fire is something like only 30% efficient while an enclosed stove is more like 80%. So perhaps depends on how much you use it and your setup to perhaps see if it is worth the outlay to get a stove. Best prices I have seen is at Machine Mart. They do some for about £200 but there will need to be some pipework.

I think you may be able to use a wood stove to burn coal if you put a grate inside it.

With a stove you can control the burning and even with wood keep the fire going 24/7 I often have my one on for a whole month before I need to let it go out to empty out the ash. The can stay on a low tickover all day and night to give a background heat. I run one along with the central heating and hardly need to put that on unless it is very cold.

 

[Chromatic]

Many thanks.
Bit concerned about the fire resistant classification. I would have thought it would need to be fire proof. However I may call them directly to enquire.

They are fire proof. Lots of stove manufacturer's use such products as firebox linings in their fires. I have seen similar products for lining openings available in various finishes such as simulated brick, but I can't remembet where, If you have a google you should find other suppliers.

What OTH says above about efficiencies is correct, he's also right about being able to get multifuel stoves that will burn wood and mineral fuels. If you do think about a stove instead of the open fire then do get a decent one, don't get a cheap pile of junk like the machine mart ones. And if you want a wood burning stove in that London you'll need one that has authorisation for use in smoke control zones, there are plenty available.

 

[Ganymede]

They are fire proof. Lots of stove manufacturer's use such products as firebox linings in their fires. I have seen similar products for lining openings available in various finishes such as simulated brick, but I can't remembet where, If you have a google you should find other suppliers.

What OTH says above about efficiencies is correct, he's also right about being able to get multifuel stoves that will burn wood and mineral fuels. If you do think about a stove instead of the open fire then do get a decent one, don't get a cheap pile of junk like the machine mart ones. And if you want a wood burning stove in that London you'll need one that has authorisation for use in smoke control zones, there are plenty available.

+1. American-made stoves led the way in being low-emission. You need one that burns its own smoke.

Obv, what we all really need is one of these: http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp

I would so love to have one but I imagine you'd have trouble getting buildings insurance! (also, soz, off-topic really as it's no help to you trj but it's a great website).

 

[Globalti]

Send your wife round to my house! Sooooo much better than open fires... warm, cheerful (with window in front), use much much less wood, cleaner both environmentally and for the house (less dust/smoke/soot). You can still grill your marshmallows or toast by opening the door, you can cook a stew on top or mull some wine... MMMMMMMM!!!!

But yes they do cost upfront, alas. You'd need a chimney liner for a start.

All true but you don't necessarily need a flue liner. If your existing flue is in good nick and not leaking there's no reason why you need a liner. Liners will double the installation cost and are a nice little earner for the less scrupulous installers. Your best bet is to get a chimney sweep in to assess the flue then decide where to go.

 

[Ganymede]

All true but you don't necessarily need a flue liner. If your existing flue is in good nick and not leaking there's no reason why you need a liner. Liners will double the installation cost and are a nice little earner for the less scrupulous installers. Your best bet is to get a chimney sweep in to assess the flue then decide where to go.

I had an unlined flue in my last house - just a brick chimney with the woodstove flue going through a plate at the bottomm - and got nasty sooty stains coming through on the chimney breast - something to do with condensation and the variation of temperature between lighting the fires. An old chimney, I should say. I had another which had an inbuilt flue-liner and was fine, so yes, you have to check the situation.

 

[Globalti]

If your flue is an old square brick one constructed as part of the wall then yes, it will take a long time to warm up and condensation will be a problem no matter how dry your firewood or smokeless fuel. The condensation will seep through the mortar and you'll get staining inside and outside. In the old days this wasn't a problem because coal and labour were cheap and every house had maids running up and down stairs with buckets of coal, keeping all the fires burning all day every day to heat them so the flues remained permanently warm and dry. When you only light your stove in the evenings or at weekends you will be trying to heat up cold brickwork.

More modern houses will have a class1 flue made out of concentric clay rings like hula hoops, built inside the chimney breast. This is better because it will warm up more quickly and moisture will evaporate, can't penetrate and you'll get a good smooth column of rising hot gases, creating a nice strong vacuum at the bottom. If your house has an old-style brick flue or an especially wide flue, a liner is the answer but these are expensive. I'm afraid the stove "industry" is probably guilty of bamboozling quite a lot of their customers into having a liner fitted when it's not needed.

As before, your local chimney sweep is your friend here - keep him on side and ask him to fit the stove; he will do it with a rodding port in the stove pipe to make life easier for himself when cleaning.

 

[Ganymede]

The nice thing about an old flue with a liner in, is you can fix a vent to the chimney on the first floor and get warm air upstairs as well as down. My sis-in-law has this and I keep meaning to investigate for our old place. I could heat two bedrooms as our chimney is so fat. You couldn't do that with an open fire!

 

[Globalti]

The nice thing about an old flue with a liner in, is you can fix a vent to the chimney on the first floor and get warm air upstairs as well as down. My sis-in-law has this and I keep meaning to investigate for our old place. I could heat two bedrooms as our chimney is so fat. You couldn't do that with an open fire!

That sounds a bit dodgy to me.... I understand what you mean... that you could bleed some of the warm air rising between the liner and the flue into an upstairs room but your problem is going to be that no matter how good the register plate, some fumes are going to find their way up into that gap and will emerge in the upstairs room. Even if it wasn't dangerous it would smell so I don't think I'd want to do it.