First electric car experience

[gzoom]

@Sittingduck A Leaf will do about 3-3.5miles per kWh at 70mph, so you can work out the range from there.

For long range travel the thing to realize is charging speed and efficiency is almost as important at range.

Essentially you can have a car with a massive range, but if it charges slowly and has a big battery it will actually take LONGER to do a long trip than a car with a smaller battery, better efficiency and high charging speeds.

The Leaf unfortunaly doesn't have great charging speed, and also isn't that efficient, it also is hampered by needing a CHADEMO rapid charging port which is now been phased out as everyone else is using CCS. Think VHS versus Betamax, with CHADEMO been Betamax, so in a few years time there is a chance you might struggle to find a rapid charger that works with the Leaf!!

This chap does some interesting 1000km test in Europe using fast chargers (350KW) which aren't that common yet. The results are interesting as it shows its not always the cars with the biggest range that do the trip fastest.


View: https://youtu.be/IX5000aRx5Q

 

[icowden]

I like the way they drive, all that torque from the off, but it's just they don't go far enough for our usage pattern, not even the £100K one alien mask sells.

How far do you drive per day then? The Tesla S is up to 400 miles of range now. So easily London to Edinburgh without charging. Most people would stop for a wee and a sandwich during that drive, so that gives a chance to charge up some additional miles.

 

[neil_merseyside]

How far do you drive per day then? The Tesla S is up to 400 miles of range now. So easily London to Edinburgh without charging. Most people would stop for a wee and a sandwich during that drive, so that gives a chance to charge up some additional miles.

In a previous job I occasionally drove Merseyside to Alps a few times a year, however these days it's maybe 300 a day (*3) getting to holiday destination, but frequent (8 p a.) 300 round trip with no charging available. Is the 400 mile daylight summer range or winter overnight? but perhaps more importantly is that a car that costs £12,000 like my current car did (that has 750+ range) and a shame/waste/crime to scrap a working vehicle - even if the Tesla was free! Even at my age I have a 6hr bladder so a driver swap (and even a wee) doesn't allow enough time for a recharge, and we prefer sandwiches that are homemade, healthy and cheap so food stops wouldn't count. Electric cars will suit 90% of motorists wthout doubt, but then again walking and cycling could probably cover 60% of journeys in any case.

 

[gzoom]

In a previous job I occasionally drove Merseyside to Alps a few times a year

If I had £1 every time someone bought up driving to the Alps when EVs get mentioned......At least you haven't said you wanted to tow a caravan at the same time .

What you say is true, if you want to drive to the Alps non stop an EV will take longer, but I suspect the number of people who have driven to the Alps from the UK is tiny, and even more tiny is the number of people who have done it none stop. So you are right for your situation an EV isn't going to work well, and may never do so. But for the vast majority of UK car owners EVs add little to no inconvenience.

We can easily afford any number of combustion cars, and my family certainly don't like been inconvenienced, yet 6 years on from taking ownership of our first EV we have zero interest or intent to buy another combustion car.

 

[neil_merseyside]

If I had £1 every time someone bought up driving to the Alps when EVs get mentioned......At least you haven't said you wanted to tow a caravan at the same time .

What you say is true, if you want to drive to the Alps non stop an EV will take longer, but I suspect the number of people who have driven to the Alps from the UK is tiny, and even more tiny is the number of people who have done it none stop. So you are right for your situation an EV isn't going to work well, and may never do so. But for the vast majority of UK car owners EVs add little to no inconvenience.

We can easily afford any number of combustion cars, and my family certainly don't like been inconvenienced, yet 6 years on from taking ownership of our first EV we have zero interest or intent to buy another combustion car.

Lots of people do lots of silly mileages and just in the UK, for them (+me) ICE is only option until EV's improve, for the rest an EV is ideal, as I'm sure walking and cycling don't allow for anywhere near as much posing with your latest credit money pit.
I think if they could move the Alps and the Spanish Med coast a bit nearer the problem would indeed be solved.

 

[icowden]

In a previous job I occasionally drove Merseyside to Alps a few times a year, however these days it's maybe 300 a day (*3) getting to holiday destination, but frequent (8 p a.) 300 round trip with no charging available.

So, you have a non-typical journey to the alps, presumably of around 900 miles. And more frequently you can drive 300 miles per day.
A Tesla Model 3 Long Range can manage about 300 miles per day, so you don't need to use superchargers there. Presumably you stop at some point rather than just driving a 300 mile circle, so there should be an opportunity to top-up charge.

For the Alps, you have a 293 mile drive to the Channel Tunnel. You can park at a Tesla Supercharger there whilst you wait for your EuroTunnel slot. It's likely you'll want to be there in good time, so you are going to have at least 30 minutes to charge I'd have thought. Lets assume you set off early, so breakfast during the trip through the Tunnel. AT this point you should be back up to at least the 250 mile mark I'd have thought.

One more stop for a good leg stretch somewhere at a supercharger around Reims and another one further on at Basel (dependent on your route) . Don't forget you are likely to stop twice for petrol or diesel twice unless you have a magnificent MPG.

Bearing in mind that this is around a 16 hour drive (with an hour off for the tunnel), a couple of 30 minute stops for leg stretching before the tunnel and somewhere on the france / switzerland leg doesn't seem unreasonable.

Of course you'll have spend a lot less on recharging than you would have done on petrol / diesel.
And of course you are still basing your usage on 11 trips per year rather than daily use.

What's the "range" of your ICE car?

 

[simongt]

Interesting point about charging bays. They seem to invariably be out in the open and unlit, unlike pretty much all normal filling stations. Thus if you need to recharge and it's coming down stair rods, you, your payment card and the electric plug and socket are going to get very wet.
Go figure.

 

[JhnBssll]

The batteries will be perfectly conditioned on a long trip like that too so on v3 superchargers you'll be looking at charge speeds peaking at 1000 miles per hour, from 5 to 95% charge in 37 minutes but you'd hit 80% much quicker as the charge speed ramps down a lot as you reach full capacity. I genuinely don't think people will expect EV's to meet their ICE needs for long, they'll start adapting their usage to suit EV's which have significant benefits elsewhere. With mine I don't expect to need to stop for a charge very regularly at all, and will likely go months on end without having to do more than plug it in overnight. No more over-priced petrol station hot dogs for me

 

[neil_merseyside]

So, you have a non-typical journey to the alps, presumably of around 900 miles. And more frequently you can drive 300 miles per day.
A Tesla Model 3 Long Range can manage about 300 miles per day, so you don't need to use superchargers there. Presumably you stop at some point rather than just driving a 300 mile circle, so there should be an opportunity to top-up charge.

For the Alps, you have a 293 mile drive to the Channel Tunnel. You can park at a Tesla Supercharger there whilst you wait for your EuroTunnel slot. It's likely you'll want to be there in good time, so you are going to have at least 30 minutes to charge I'd have thought. Lets assume you set off early, so breakfast during the trip through the Tunnel. AT this point you should be back up to at least the 250 mile mark I'd have thought.

One more stop for a good leg stretch somewhere at a supercharger around Reims and another one further on at Basel (dependent on your route) . Don't forget you are likely to stop twice for petrol or diesel twice unless you have a magnificent MPG.

Bearing in mind that this is around a 16 hour drive (with an hour off for the tunnel), a couple of 30 minute stops for leg stretching before the tunnel and somewhere on the france / switzerland leg doesn't seem unreasonable.

Of course you'll have spend a lot less on recharging than you would have done on petrol / diesel.
And of course you are still basing your usage on 11 trips per year rather than daily use.

What's the "range" of your ICE car?

The trip to the Alps is indeed a marathon (950miles), 300 miles to tunnel, refill in Calais (was cheaper) drive to foot of Alp and fill up with winter diesel (if winter season). Stopping excessively just increases the drive time overall, so as long as you have two drivers you can go straight through with only short comfort breaks. If driving for work then overnights and easier days applied. If driving solo you'd want more of a break be it for work or holiday. Indeed arrive on a Saturday in February, you can have an hours kip at the toll boths at both Chambéry and Albertville. Glad I arrived in November and left in May.
The car has a range in excess of 800 miles, but the 300 mile round trip is to a place with no charging available (a 3rd floor flat on the road) and I'm not going to swap to a £40K car that if it's a bit cold, or I drive too fast might not complete the round trip, and would superchargers at Dover be available for my 30 minute window, do you book them in advance to ensure you can charge when needed?

The recharging saving will disappear into EVIL (Electric Vehicle Income Levy) to recover the fuel duty and VAT that ICE engines currently pay.

 

[icowden]

The car has a range in excess of 800 miles, but the 300 mile round trip is to a place with no charging available (a 3rd floor flat on the road) and I'm not going to swap to a £40K car that if it's a bit cold, or I drive too fast might not complete the round trip, and would superchargers at Dover be available for my 30 minute window, do you book them in advance to ensure you can charge when needed?

The recharging saving will disappear into EVIL (Electric Vehicle Income Levy) to recover the fuel duty and VAT that ICE engines currently pay.

Not heard of EVIL and it doesn't come up on Google. At the moment Governments want people to go electric, so it makes no sense to charge additional taxes (yet).

As for superchargers at Dover, one of the nice things about Tesla is that they are intelligent. They will recommend where to charge and network with each other so they should have some idea of whether the charger you want will be available at around the time you get there.

The cold weather / driving too fast thing is a bit of a red herring. Sure, if you live in Reykjavik then you will get a lot less range, but Merseyside doesn't get *that* cold, *that* often. You'll also probably find a charger of some sort near the flat. It doesn't *have* to be a tesla supercharger. You could even chuck a cable out of the flat if you can park close enough!

Switching to EVs requires learning some new habits and discarding some old ones. The biggest fear is about range, but then you start with a full tank every morning.

At the end of the day, if you don't like the idea then you can stay with Petrol or Diesel. However, as more people switch over that fuel is going to get more expensive, and petrol stations are going to start to close down. Eventually it will be very expensive to run a gas guzzler.

 

[neil_merseyside]

EVIL will be along very, very shortly say ICE ban +2years at the latest.
So as I get towards Dover the superchargers say "sorry try Ramsgate"?
I don't need to chuck a mains cable into a public road, or even go hunting for a free charger (and wait x4-6 of a fuel refill) as I have an existing vehicle, in good order, and with a fuel tank that can do the round trip TWICE.
If I'm still driving 300 mile trips and the range of BEV isn't 400+ (in UK winter using lights and heating, or indeed UK summer and Aircon) then I'll have another newish Diesel just before the ban comes into force as they'll be pennies to buy, unless of course the predictions of power shortages make them expensive as they'll still work for at least the 10 years until LGV go Duracell.

If they made a BEV that could tow a caravan (~1250kg) more than 200 miles, and run solo for 600 I'd get one in a heartbeat, but not new as they are silly money.

 

[Daninplymouth]

Untill you try and EV, you cannot dismiss them as not been as good as combustion cars. For me they are BETTER, and I've had some OK combustion cars. This is the dyno print out for my last combustion car, thats WHP, and notice the odd power curve.....we couldn't stop it from wheel spinning on the dyno. I even took it on a 2000 mile European road trip to the Swiss Alps and coming back via Germany and the Belgium GP, so you could say I was just slight petrol head .

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......can you guess the EV I gave up the 335i for......a Nissan Leaf , and as far as am concerned it was the best car purchase decision I have ever made. You would have to pay me to go back into a combustion car these days, and even than I would just sell that car and get an EV. I'm going to list all the reasons why I love EVs so much more than combustion cars, but if a self proclaimed former petrol head can make the move to EVs, am sure most people can.

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No wonder it was wheel spinning that power curve looks pretty shocking, nothing nothing bang then all over within 2000rpm

 

[icowden]

If I'm still driving 300 mile trips and the range of BEV isn't 400+ (in UK winter using lights and heating, or indeed UK summer and Aircon) then I'll have another newish Diesel just before the ban comes into force as they'll be pennies to buy, unless of course the predictions of power shortages make them expensive as they'll still work for at least the 10 years until LGV go Duracell.
If they made a BEV that could tow a caravan (~1250kg) more than 200 miles, and run solo for 600 I'd get one in a heartbeat, but not new as they are silly money.

They might be pennies to buy, but you may find that the Diesel becomes pretty costly.
BEVs have a lot of torque, the Tesla S (1600kg), Tesla X (2268kg) and Cybertruck can all pull that load easily and do 200 miles. The Model 3 is only rated for up to 1000kg. If you don't like the idea of Tesla, Polestar 2 has a similar towing capacity and decent range.

Other than your phobia of driving 600 miles without stopping, these cars already exist. You can regain 200 miles in 15 minutes at a Tesla supercharger. Not only that but your Tesla will know if the chargers are in use or not.

 

[neil_merseyside]

Tesla S has a range of 345 so a towing range of ~170, X is 295 so ~150 but you couldn't pay me to drive the tonka toy.
The Polestar2 is 265 so ~130. None of those is 200 miles.
All are a lot of money than ICE cars so never going to be £12K secondhand at less than three years old, and again it would mean scrapping an already built working vehicle/un-natural resource hog.
I've no phobia of 600 miles without stopping, other than the waste of time it involves, but this is probably the nub of BEV unsuitability for anyone who has a need to drive more than normal, and it's just that the range is so poor compared to a diesel. I they located the chargers somewhere you'd like to visit and could combine a visit and a recharge seems it might work - but then I'd have to move the car after short/long period.
I'll wait until have a better range so that home charging allows me to 'runaround/a lot' without factoring visits to a charger. Tesla superchargers are quick, they are intelligent too, but sadly they may be in use, so that begs the question do you stop at the first available one just in case the second/third is busy, how easy is it to get a caravan into a charging bay incidently.
If my relatives die, we give up caravanning and long distance holidays - so the longer drives aren't needed then a BEV would work, though I doubt I could actually afford one.

figures from ev-database.uk, fuel consumption for towing is generally 50% similar to diesel.

 

[icowden]

Tesla superchargers are quick, they are intelligent too, but sadly they may be in use, so that begs the question do you stop at the first available one just in case the second/third is busy, how easy is it to get a caravan into a charging bay incidently.

I think you would have to unhitch the caravan to use the charging bay. Tesla's can now see if superchargers are in use before you get there. Therefore they won't try to navigate you to one that is full, but one that has spaces.

I agree with you about the range issue with towing, but a 360 mile range on an S halved is still 180 miles, so close to the 200 mark. Above all, driving an EV isn't like driving an ICE car. You do it differently, and most people seem to adapt pretty quickly.