Fit for Purpose - Sales of goods act

[smiorgan]

@sonic - yeah, I'm not surprised they come in 2 versions, I have a road actuated BB7 in the shed. Just thought I'd ask in case the factory bought a batch of the wrong model.

@gaz - that sounds broken - sudden and catastrophic failure, totally different problem to the brakes being a bit weak. No idea how these brakes work, but it sounds like a snail cam or something, if you can pull it harder and harder until it suddenly slackens off with a crack. It would explain why your brakes work when the pads are set up close, but as soon as your cable stretches requiring a bit more pull then you can go past the "point of no return". Can you replicate it at home on the bike stand?

Anyway it sounds defective from your description, and therefore unsafe. I'd demand my money back or a replacement brake. Good luck man

 

[Jezston]

I'd ask to return it and settle on a properly fitted replacement brake.

What did Genesis say when you contacted them? Nothing? Sad - they were VERY talkative via email when I was interested in getting one of those myself, although sadly the conversation ended when they said "no they will only come in orange"

 

[joebe]

Gaz,

I have an identical problem on the Day one. It started on Friday (the bike's about 4 months old and done about 1500 miles). I made adjustments last night which have helped, but the problem reappreared after about 5 miles of my commute this morning. I'm going to contact the LBS, but I'm a little shocked to say the least that Genesis seem to be ignoring this fault, which is, afterall, pretty catastrophic.

 

[Twenty Inch]

Consumer Direct will provide you with a template letter.

Stop f*cking around taking the bike back - registered letter to head office, saying you want a refund as the bike is not fit to ride, give them 2 weeks to respond, follow-up registered letter, small claims court.

 

[gaz]

I'd ask to return it and settle on a properly fitted replacement brake.

What did Genesis say when you contacted them? Nothing? Sad - they were VERY talkative via email when I was interested in getting one of those myself, although sadly the conversation ended when they said "no they will only come in orange"

They where happy to talk, but dismissed any nature of an issue with the bike.

Gaz,

I have an identical problem on the Day one. It started on Friday (the bike's about 4 months old and done about 1500 miles). I made adjustments last night which have helped, but the problem reappreared after about 5 miles of my commute this morning. I'm going to contact the LBS, but I'm a little shocked to say the least that Genesis seem to be ignoring this fault, which is, afterall, pretty catastrophic.

Good luck, i will post at some point how i got on with it.

Consumer Direct will provide you with a template letter.

Stop f*cking around taking the bike back - registered letter to head office, saying you want a refund as the bike is not fit to ride, give them 2 weeks to respond, follow-up registered letter, small claims court.

Just what i needed to get me in gear!

 

[sonic]

well, that is some weird problem, gaz. makes me want to examine your bike so bad! I think i will have to sufice with having a wee look at my own lyras when i get back home.

and in response to the "fit for purpose" thing - unfortunatly fair doesn't come into it - just because you expect to get powerful brakes on a £1000 bike, doesn''t mean that when you don't, it isn't fit for purpose. as long as the brakes provide a certain level of power (and trust me, the threshold is very low) then they are fit for purpose. Too many people think they can use "not fit for purpose" as a carte blanche when they are dissatisfied with a product.

having said that, the problem with your rear brake sounds trés mal - I'd definatly say it's is not fit for purpose. Take a look at the brake caliper yourself and see if you can figure out what's wrong

 

[MacB]

That sort of slippage sounds like a ratchet or spring not holding and then re-engaging after the brake has been released and reapplied. I'd normally associate that with a fault due to a part wearing or something having loosened over time/not done up tight enough. I'd be surprised if it was a design fault as it's the sort of thing that even the most basic testing would bring to light.

Having to constantly adjust the clearances is weird, if you were riding in rough conditions with heavy brake use, ie muddy cyclocross, then I can see it. But one of my reasons for going with mechanical discs was for the 'fit and forget' aspect. With road use I'd expect to maybe give a tweak once a month and that would be with quite heavy mileage.

 

[gaz]

That sort of slippage sounds like a ratchet or spring not holding and then re-engaging after the brake has been released and reapplied. I'd normally associate that with a fault due to a part wearing or something having loosened over time/not done up tight enough. I'd be surprised if it was a design fault as it's the sort of thing that even the most basic testing would bring to light.

Having to constantly adjust the clearances is weird, if you were riding in rough conditions with heavy brake use, ie muddy cyclocross, then I can see it. But one of my reasons for going with mechanical discs was for the 'fit and forget' aspect. With road use I'd expect to maybe give a tweak once a month and that would be with quite heavy mileage.

I've taken it into several bike shops and explained / showed the mechanics the issue and nothing was picked up.

I've only used it for commuting on the road, 150miles a week. I wouldn't expect the brakes to need adjusting every 30miles.

 

[MacB]

I've taken it into several bike shops and explained / showed the mechanics the issue and nothing was picked up.

I've only used it for commuting on the road, 150miles a week. I wouldn't expect the brakes to need adjusting every 30miles.

Hmm, maybe the two problems are part and parcel of the same thing, something is gradually creeping out of alignment/losing grip and every so often it slips totally on the back brake? Every 30 miles is ridiculous for adjustments and I think you're right to push hard for a resolution to this. Though still early days I've had to make two adjustments, one after bedding the brakes in and truing the rotors and the second after about 1k miles.

Nope, I'd be far from happy in your situation Gaz.

 

[BentMikey]

I'd have thought you'd get at least 1-2k miles between needing to adjust them. I'm pretty sure I got something like 3,000 miles out of my Hope mono minis on the front of my previous recumbent before needing to adjust.

 

[joebe]

The problem on mine has only just started happening, after about 1500 miles, so they should be well and truely bedded in. Up until then I had hassel free operations.

And as expected it was much worse this morning compared to last night.

Out of interest, how long should the pads last? I wondered if it might be due to the pads starting to wearout and an indication of them needing replacing, further exacerbated by the use of Shimano rotors which are thinner?

I wrote to Genesis last night and copied in my local shop, so we'll see.

 

[gaz]

I've done 2k on mine and had the issue after only 200 miles.

 

[classic33]

Can I ask why we have brakes fitted(other than the legal requirement). Speaking for myself, they are there to be used to slow down or stop the pedal cycle. If for any reason they fail to do that then I'd have no hesitation in saying that they(the brakes) are not fit for purpose.

I'd take the entire bike back to the shop where it was bought, explain the problem. Also explaining why the entire bike was brought back, so they could see for themselves the problem, as opposed to just the brakes.

Say that I'm leaving the bike with them to sort the issue out. Legally you have to give them the chance to try & sort the problem. If they were then either unable or unwilling to sort the problem, the bike would be taken elsewhere. All parts that required replacing would be replaced, with the cost being passed back to the shop that sold me the bike in the first place. You have a legal right to do this. I've done it. They may try to fob you off, you've had it X months & not done this, until now.

In your favour is the fact that you have been back a number of times, with the same problem. Against you is the fact that you continued to use the bike with the less than desirable braking feature. The overall value of the bike should not be used as a measurment with regards the quality of the components. However brakes that fail to slow you down are a contradiction in terms.

Make your intentions clear. They can sort the problem out, or you will be getting the problem sorted out passing ALL costs incurred in correcting the problem back to them.

 

[classic33]

See
http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/after_you_buy/making-complaint/template-letters/SGA1979/

 

[gaz]

Can I ask why we have brakes fitted(other than the legal requirement). Speaking for myself, they are there to be used to slow down or stop the pedal cycle. If for any reason they fail to do that then I'd have no hesitation in saying that they(the brakes) are not fit for purpose.

I'd take the entire bike back to the shop where it was bought, explain the problem. Also explaining why the entire bike was brought back, so they could see for themselves the problem, as opposed to just the brakes.

Say that I'm leaving the bike with them to sort the issue out. Legally you have to give them the chance to try & sort the problem. If they were then either unable or unwilling to sort the problem, the bike would be taken elsewhere. All parts that required replacing would be replaced, with the cost being passed back to the shop that sold me the bike in the first place. You have a legal right to do this. I've done it. They may try to fob you off, you've had it X months & not done this, until now.

In your favour is the fact that you have been back a number of times, with the same problem. Against you is the fact that you continued to use the bike with the less than desirable braking feature. The overall value of the bike should not be used as a measurment with regards the quality of the components. However brakes that fail to slow you down are a contradiction in terms.

Make your intentions clear. They can sort the problem out, or you will be getting the problem sorted out passing ALL costs incurred in correcting the problem back to them.

I have been to several shops (it's a chain i bought it from) several times and when even showing the mechanic the issue, it has not been solved!
I've had the bike just under 6 months. And it's been in the shop no less than 7 times!