Flashing rear lights seen....

[fossyant]

Shame it's a Vauxhall...

 

[Davidc]

I've read several times that the best way to improve driving (and hard braking would certainly be reduced) would be to install a sharp spike in the centre of the steering wheel pointing at the driver's heart, and do away wih driver's seat belts and airbags!

 

[HJ]

I agree. As usual with these things, there's a significant danger that many motorists will use them as a substitute for driving properly in the first place. I never use my hazards under braking, but then I usually drive so as to avoid the need for heavy braking in the first place.

Aye, it is like the introduction of anti-lock braking, the accident rate increased because some driver thought they were now exempt from the laws of physics...

 

[thomas]

Yeah, well, I don't think we've ever owned a car with ABS....

, just be careful if you do!! Apparently some people find it hard to change between the two. I've driven cars with and without and done emergency stops in both without any issues (mainly when learning to drive and once when a royal mail cyclist jumped out in front of a car and that car decided to swerve into me).

 

[GrasB]

I hate ABS, it increased stopping distances & doesn't allow for as much directional control of the car. The thing about ABS is for those who know how to brake & balance the car properly it's a hinderance but one you can drive around, however for those who just freeze on the brakes & try to steer it dramatically increases their ability to manoeuvre the car & stop quickly.

User, yeah variable/multistage brake lights imo would be a good thing.

 

[HJ]

I hate ABS, it increased stopping distances & doesn't allow for as much directional control of the car. The thing about ABS is for those who know how to brake & balance the car properly it's a hinderance but one you can drive around, however for those who just freeze on the brakes & try to steer it dramatically increases their ability to manoeuvre the car & stop quickly.

User, yeah variable/multistage brake lights imo would be a good thing.

What are you on about? Anti-lock Braking Systems (ABS) do not increase distances and do allow directional control, that is what they were invented to do...

 

[GrasB]

ABS v's Gras 100km/h to 0 (I think, the comment is 100-0 tests) average of 3 runs.
Alfa with ABS 37.8m without 36.2m
Lotus with ABS 37.1m without ABS 35.8m
Seicento with ABS 44.3m without ABS 39.1m (unfair as the ABS system was setup for 165/55R13 tyres & stock suspension, not sticky 195/40R14 tyres, coilovers & an extra 19kg over the front axle)

When doing handling tests with the Lotus & the Alfa I was much slower at turning around the cones due to the ABS changes the bias of the brakes when activated thus destabilising the whole car making understeer/oversteer. On the Seicento when doing autotesting not being able to lockup one or both of the inside wheels up was a real hinderance & caused massive understeer. With that said I am/was using techniques I'd not expect the typical driver to have developed.

 

[HJ]

How do you think ABS works? It is just the same as cadence braking, only the car does it for you. OK so the boy racers think they can do it better, but in reality 99.9% of the drivers on the road don't have anything like that level of skill.

 

[GrasB]

Driving without ABS you'll brake in a shorter distance but only if you brake effectively and don't skid.

When doing an emergency stop instead of getting on the clutch, use your left foot to brake & apply some throttle with your right, only works* with AWD or FWD cars & is even more effective with a real LSD (rather than an 'electronic LSD'), this makes the front wheels far more resistant to locking up.

Steering while doing an emergency stop is always more effective without ABS, again if you're braking effectively. The ABS rattling your brakes on and off affects your balance and steering.

It depends on your driving skill, average joe just pushes the pedal to the floor & freezes there. Now if you do that you've probably locked the front brakes & the steering wheel is now useless. With ABS it works like very fast cadence braking, so if you freeze on the brakes then you'll not lock up & still have some directional control. That said for someone who uses driving techniques to keep better control of the car ABS gets in your way & causes issues, in which case you simply act like average Joe.

* actually it also works with RWD cars, however it is a completely different technique applying to steering while braking & doesn't increase your braking efficiency.

 

[cheadle hulme]

There's a real risk with car brake lights that I've never seen mentioned before, and I'm not sure that this flashing counters it.

And that is that they're not progressive. If a car in front is very lightly braking then the brake lights are on. If they then significantly increase their braking, or do an emergency stop, it's not possible to indicate this with brake lights. It can a bit risky on motorways.

My BMW has 3 stage brightness. I think most cars with ESP (and therefore a G force sensor) have it.

 

[Jonathan M]

Aye, it is like the introduction of anti-lock braking, the accident rate increased because some driver thought they were now exempt from the laws of physics...

And ABS can be fecking useless in snow & ice too


One thought about other vehicles possessing flashing rear (red) lights, and it is similar to the issue of daytime running lights on cars from the perspective of motorcyclists, and that is the possibility of more flashing rear red lights actually reducing the effectiveness when we've got them on our bikes - people just get used to seeing them more & more, so pay less attention to them.

 

[cheadle hulme]

That's good. I've not noticed it on a car yet.

That is good; it's not the sort of thing you want to notice.

 

[rh100]

I was always taught to only pump the brakes when you feel the wheels lock, you release and reapply the brake and only repeat if it locks again. This method has worked well for me over many miles.

I'm not a big fan of ABS, but can see the benefits for some. I find that if braking heavily and hitting a pothole at the same time brings on the abs unnecesarily.

 

[GrasB]

rh100, cadence braking, manual ABS!

Problem with ABS is that it has a list of expected parameters & if you go outside them you'll trigger it. The pothole made the wheel going over it slip beyond what the ABS system has as acceptable, this then causes it to kick in. The thing is you have eyes to register that there's a patch of gravel/mud or a pothole so let the lockup self correct.

 

[rh100]

There is some interesting reading here, it seems that the method I described is known as threshold braking. I'd never heard it called that before, but just the way I've always done it.