Flippin' nuisance ignoramuses!!!!

[XmisterIS]

I wonder if anyone else here who writes software can relate to this (I'm sure you can!),

Don't you just hate it when a potential client asks, "I want an application/website/etc to do so-and-so, how much will that cost?"

So you go away, think about it, raise your eyebrows when you realise how much work is involved, then you send a reply saying, "well, that will cost £X, because I have to do this, and this, and this, and etc ..."

And how do they reply? "That seems a lot! I don't understand why it has to cost so much, all that will be be on it is a few text boxes and few buttons and a graph!"

"Yes, I know, but that's just the interface, do you have any idea what needs to go behind the interface??!"

"But it's just a few text boxes and a few buttons and a graph!"

"Your car is more than just a steering wheel, a gear stick and three pedals, right?"

"Yes, but this isn't car, it's just a simple thing. I can give you £Y". (ludicrously low offer that would see me getting paid about £1.50 per hour for the duration of the project). "I can't offer you any more than that, or I'll go elsewhere for a quote".

"Good luck .... !"

 

[gregsid]

EXACTLY! Non-programmers have little or no concept of what goes on behind the scenes. Even modest spreadsheets can "hide" some jolly clever formulae and conditional code. All the user sees is the pretty front-end.

You could always, say "Okay, feel free to do it yourself, but when you're stuck, get back to me."

 

[Fnaar]

Yeah, you just press a few keys, wiggle your mouse, and then sit back with an ice cold beer while pound signs rattle away in your eyes like on cartoons. You're taking us for mugs and by gad, we've had enough. We'll do our own programming from now on, using an abacus and some knitting needles.

 

[beanzontoast]

I think there's a general feeling when it comes to websites that 'it can't be that complicated'. After all, people see places offering basic sites 'for free' or at very little cost, and everyone seems to know a relative / friend / acquaintance from down the pub who built a website in a weekend for themselves / their business / the local smurf rescue shelter. The fact the coding of these sites often makes me cry when I look at it means nothing - all people care about is what they see.

 

[Melonfish]

par for course tbh, happens to developers and coders who contract or work for themselves.
people just don't realise the effort that is put into it.
why i never branched into web dev tbh.
pete

 

[XmisterIS]

par for course tbh, happens to developers and coders who contract or work for themselves.
people just don't realise the effort that is put into it.
why i never branched into web dev tbh.
pete

I know, good job that software freelancing on contract is not my only source of income!!

What irks me particularly about this joker is that what he's asking me to do will enable him to save £££ on the running of his business, yet he's only prepared to pay me a couple of beans.

 

[Judderz]

This isn't about coding, but had this with the client when she wanted something designing:

Client: I don’t like that blue, make it a bit lighter. Just a bit!
I send the (unchanged) file back to her.

Client: Hmm, ok thats too light, make it a bit darker.
I send the same file - again, unchanged.
...
Client: Ok just add a hint of brightness and we’re done!
Again, same file, unchanged.

Client: Perfect! Has anyone told you that you are amazing at what you do?

 

[XmisterIS]

This isn't about coding, but had this with the client when she wanted something designing:

Client: I don’t like that blue, make it a bit lighter. Just a bit!
I send the (unchanged) file back to her.

Client: Hmm, ok thats too light, make it a bit darker.
I send the same file - again, unchanged.
...
Client: Ok just add a hint of brightness and we’re done!
Again, same file, unchanged.

Client: Perfect! Has anyone told you that you are amazing at what you do?

Priceless!

I have been known to suck through my teeth and tell them, "Oooo, it'll cost ya!" to completely change the L&F of a web page ... whereas in reality it's an hour of writing some new CSS ... et voila!

 

[2Loose]

After hearing another 'change that, it'll be only a five minute job' for the umteenth time from one particular customer I asked her to sit with me while I did it...

5 minutes to remove the text box from the form.
4 hours to alter all the code and stored procedures that used the textbox that no longer existed.

As she left, I reminded her that 'there is no such thing as a 5 minute job' and grinned.

I never heard that phrase from her, or her team again.

 

[swee'pea99]

I'm sure every trade has its own frustrations. The one that winds up copywriters like me is 'I'd write it myself if I had the time'. As if they could do what you do, if they weren't s-o-o-o-o-o-o busy ('cos they're so important, unlike you). "Well, you could. But you could spend a month on it and it would still read like a semi-literate turd on a stick." Is what we don't say...

 

[beanzontoast]

Priceless!

I have been known to suck through my teeth and tell them, "Oooo, it'll cost ya!" to completely change the L&F of a web page ... whereas in reality it's an hour of writing some new CSS ... et voila!

... or in language borrowed from other trades: "Oooh - be next Thursday at the earliest before I can take a look at yer CSS. It's getting hold of the snippets you see, missus - have to order 'em in special."

 

[MontyVeda]

[quote name='swee'pea99' timestamp='1311074525' post='1757654']
I'm sure every trade has its own frustrations. The one that winds up copywriters like me is 'I'd write it myself if I had the time'. As if they could do what you do, if they weren't s-o-o-o-o-o-o busy ('cos they're so important, unlike you). "Well, you could. But you could spend a month on it and it would still read like a semi-literate turd on a stick." Is what we don't say...
[/quote]

I know that one... when i rewrite somebodies entire website because their copy made little sense they'd complain "but I spent hours on that... and you've changed it all!"

"Yes... now whoever visits your website wont think you're an illiterate incompetent so and so."

ps. isn't Notlob just Bolton backwards? A palindrome is something like "a man a plan a canal panama"

 

[swee'pea99]

I know that one... when i rewrite somebodies entire website because their copy made little sense they'd complain "but I spent hours on that... and you've changed it all!"

"Yes... now whoever visits your website wont think you're an illiterate incompetent so and so."

ps. isn't Notlob just Bolton backwards? A palindrome is something like "a man a plan a canal panama"

Call that a palindrome? Try this!

 

[XmisterIS]

Ha! It seems that the ignoramus on who's account I wrote this thread has seen sense after all ...

today, several days later, he's sent me an email saying, effectively, "errrr, yes, ok, you're right, I'll keep you in mind". (Only not as polite).

Note the lack of an apology ... but who cares if he contracts me to do the work!

I get the feeling he's been round a few people, got the same reply, realises that the real world of computer programming isn't quite like Star Trek, and can he really afford this amazing project, the very best thing since sliced bread, which will save him loads of money ... but oh! Wait! He'll have to pay for it! Life's so unfair ... especially when you have to pay contractors more than 3 beans per hour ...

 

[Shaun]

I must admit, much as I enjoyed the actual design element of the job - the quiet office, time to get things just how I wanted them, no one looking over my shoulder and picking at things that weren't finished yet - the "working with clients" bit was either a breeze or a nightmare depending on the client. The roll-eyes smiley is specially reserved for some of those choice "Well I'd like it like this one <insert URL of a site that's had tens of thousands spent on it>" requests.

It's much less hassle now I've shut down the web design company - and the stuff I learned in the process (and the coding I taught myself in the down-time between designs) has enabled me to customise pretty much every script I've ever installed.

I suppose the same can be applied to any trade really - the "craft" that you are selling is just invisible to some people.

I "get" it - it's why I pay other people to do work on my house - I just don't have those kinds of skills.