Full suss for £1500

[lulubel]

I thought this deserved a new thread, since my other one started about hardtails and then went off at a very different tangent. I've been looking at a variety of different full suss bikes, and have found a few that come in around or under £1500 (which is the absolute maximum I can justify spending).

IF I go for a full suss, these are the ones I've found so far that are within my price range and seem to have a reasonable level of components. Any comments, good or bad, would be much appreciated.

First on my list is the Canyon Nerve AL 7.0 W (replacing the Nerve XC next year). The 2012 model is here:
http://www.canyon.com/_uk/mountainbikes/bike.html?b=2557

I've also had a look on a couple of other sites and seen some that are within my price range.

Ghost Miss AMR:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=68676
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=65861
Apart from price, how are these 2 models different?

Corratec AirTech Miss C:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=75516

Radon Slide Diva 125:
http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k1283/a78530/slide-diva-125.html

Cube AMS WLS:
http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k1283/a54723/ams-wls-white-fading-grey.html

Univega Alpina SL- SKY XT:
http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k1283/a64934/alpina-sl-5-sky-xt.html

This is just a list of bikes that are within budget. I know very little about most of the brands, and haven't even heard of Univega before, so I don't really have any opinions on any of them.

(I currently ride a 39cm hardtail with a shorter stem fitted, so the chance of finding anything to fit me in a unisex model is very slim.)

 

[lulubel]

I've done a little bit of research, and have found out some more about Radon bikes. Apparently, they're bike-discount.de's own brand, and they're quite popular in Germany. The comments I've seen on German forums seem to review them quite favourably.

So, the Radon is high on my list at the moment (helped because I like the look of it a lot). The forks (Rebas) are described as PushLoc, and I'm not sure what the difference is between that and PopLock that I've seen on other bikes. They seem to be about the same price, so I'm assuming they're just different rather than one being better than the other.

I don't know anything about the rear shock either - most of the bikes I've been looking at have had Fox Float - but it seems fairly well reviewed, so that's a positive.

The weight is nearly 1kg lighter than my current hardtail.

Is there anything there that says "avoid"?

 

[lulubel]

The Univega is €300 more expensive than the Radon, and also nearly 1kg lighter. It has more XT on it, replacing the SLX in some places on the Radon. It also has a Fizik saddle, which I'm pretty sure I'll be comfortable with, where the Radon has an own-branded saddle which I'll have to sit on and see (and may need to change).

The other main difference in components I can see is the rear shock, which is a Rock Shox Bar on the Univega.

The geometry is different. The Univega has less travel on the forks and a more upright head tube, which I think gives it more of a XC/race geometry. The Radon has slacker forks (although a fairly upright seat tube), which I think should make it a bit less agile, but more capable on tricky downhill sections. Is that correct?

Univega apparently started out as a US brand and isn't very well known in Europe. It's now owned by the same company that owns Focus, Raleigh and Diamondback. Its frames are manufactured (like most frames) in the Far East and bikes are assembled in Germany.

If I was choosing between the Radon and the Univega, the Univega would have to be quite a lot better (for what I need) to justify the extra €300 price tag. The lower weight is good for climbing, but how much will I notice the loss of 1kg? And would it be better to have a bike that's more capable on the downhill sections?

Edit: I've just noticed the Univega is free shipping, which makes the price difference closer to €200.

 

[VamP]

Weight weenies argue that around $1 per gram of saved weight is acceptable. By that reckoning saving 1000 g for Euro 200 is an absolute bargain. But then it ultimately rests on your own weight value system.

For me it would be a no brainer to go for the lightest bike within budget, but then I have skewed priorities.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

lulubel, sometimes you just have to go with your instincts, let your guts, your groin, your heart and your wallet, tell your head what to do.

The only person who can tell you which bike is better for you is you.

You're talking about marginal gains, differences at the edge of a performance envelope you've not yet really started to explore. Racy XC geometry or slack and easy trail riding style. Cross country bounce or All Mountain boing. They'll both get you to the bottom of a mountain in one piece if you've got the skills appropriate to the terrain you're riding. If you haven't? The laws of physics are merciless and welcome to a world of pain....

They are all a huge improvement on what you've got now. Such a huge improvement that you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference of one from another.

There's a school of thought, and it comes form a pretty impeachable source imo, one that makes a living form mtb suspension, that says if you're paying the FS weight penalty then buy as much travel as you can afford because travel is what it is all about on the way down a mountain but Cubist and VamP and RecordAcefromNew can put counter arguments which are interesting.

I recently bought FS for the first time (52 years old riding off road since early 90's). My HT is racey. Canyon Nerve AM was my chosen stead until a secondhand bargain Nerve XC came along. A friend I ride with who works in the trade says with my (lack of) riding style I should have gone for the Strive.

There is no one right answer. Just buy the bike that makes you dribble with lust the most.

 

[Cubist]

You asked the difference between the two Ghost Miss bikes at CRC. The 5700 has cheaper brakes and crankset . The 596 Deore brakes on the 5900 are just awesome.

That Univega's a nice light bike, it's actually an XC race bike in terms of spec. If you want light and racy it's a good'un, but it won't fill you with confidence on a long loose descent like a 120 or 140 will, simply because of the steeper head angles you've mentioned.

Same goes for the Corratech... excellent spec for the price, but again, a racy XC bike.

Same with the Cube, although it does have a taller front end, so sits you back into the comfort zone and away from unwanted pressures. Same again though, a taut 100mm susser, with a recommended sag of 15% that ain't going to be plush!

The Radon is slacker, more relaxed trail geometry as you have found out for yourself.

There isn't a massive amount of difference between a 100 and 120 bike, but there will always be a degree or two difference in head angle, which, unless the seat tube angle is steepened accordingly, has a payback on the climbs.

Greg's right. Go with your heart. All of them are great bikes, and we can all get too tangled up in componentry. A Deore crankset will still turn the pedals, and you can upgrade it later! I get the feeling however that you won't settle until you've spent your entire budget on the bike that gives you the best kit, and looks great. You won't be disappointed with any of them, but you know your own personal priorities. Also, don't feel pressurised to make the best decision based on our prejudices. If the anodised purple rocker grabs you, then go with it! Buy what you fancy. You won't have £1500 to spend all that often, so you've gotta get something you like, rather than what you think we'll approve of.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

... if you're paying the FS weight penalty then buy as much travel as you can afford because travel is what it is all about on the way down a mountain but Cubist and VamP and RecordAcefromNew can put counter arguments which are interesting.

Ahhhhhh I was going to pass on this thread. Lulubel doesn't half ask difficult question does she?

While I am in the same boat as Vamp regarding this weight weenie addiction (albeit irrational it is hard to kick man...) and while I haven't examined the specs of all the links I wouldn't put the Univega above the Radon. It is XT all round ok, and is light on paper. But I have difficulties understanding how it achieves that lightness. It has funny wheel spec (Concept EX hubs with Concept Mach 1 rims anyone?), and surprising for a 1600 euros machine comes a 100 euro rear shock. Strange huh? Since by most accounts while without lockout the latest BAR is a fine shock I am not complaining about its quality - the question is whether the Univega is vfm and whether the XT bits matter. I seem to recall one of those linked has a RP23*!?

Regarding wheels I have great difficulties trusting some unknown brand when you see how much R&D the large wheel manufacturers have to put into them to compete and shave 50 grams, and they are what I like to be light while surviving in spite of my having two left feet. The Crossride while not that light and not exactly expensive, is a proven, decent set of wheels fit for the purpose.

Has the OP given some thought to service and maintenance? The only reason I ask, is that it is going to be somewhat more involved than road bike. While this doesn't bother me, it might bother some - and for that I believe it is generally accepted that Fox shocks tend to have an edge.

Greg you did ask for counter arguments...

* generally considered one of the best if not the best

 

[GrumpyGregry]

If the anodised purple rocker grabs you, then go with it!

If I could have a purple anodised rocker I'd fit it. Nowt wrong with purple.

 

[lulubel]

If I could have a purple anodised rocker I'd fit it. Nowt wrong with purple.

Definitely. Looking round the room, I think purple might be my favourite colour!

I'm off to bed now, guys, so I'll think some more about this (and probably dream about purple bikes).

 

[zizou]

I have a 140mm FS and a 100 mm HT (and used to have a 100 mm FS) and the stuff i can ride with less travel is limited compared to what i can do with more. Cant get away from it but the extra travel is a good skill compensator and i will take the weight penalty - admittedly i dont know exactly what the weight difference is in the frame and forks, it feels heavier when i lift it over a gate but when riding i dont really notice it! Whereas i can tell straight away if i'm riding with heavier wheels / super tacky dual ply tyres etc.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

anyone done the research to determine the weight differences between the various frame and forks as the travel increases. frame weight must creep up as travel goes up to cope with bigger forces no?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Definitely. Looking round the room, I think purple might be my favourite colour!

I'm off to bed now, guys, so I'll think some more about this (and probably dream about purple bikes).

Spoken like a woman after the lovely Helen's heart; at work (teacher) she is known as Mrs Purple.

 

[fuji-stu]

I think its a funny price range the £1500 mark...i dont think you get much more for your money than the £1200 bikes? but then when you jump to £2000 theres quite a diference in spec...i had the same problem making a desision a year ago and i ended up with a spech camber fsr for £1250....but after 9 months found out it wasnt really up to the job and ended up selling it to get an Orange five...and love it

 

[fuji-stu]

anyone done the research to determine the weight differences between the various frame and forks as the travel increases. frame weight must creep up as travel goes up to cope with bigger forces no?

It deff does i have fox 36's with 160mm travel which are much heavier than the 32's with 140 travel

 

[GrumpyGregry]

It deff does i have fox 36's with 160mm travel which are much heavier than the 32's with 140 travel

please define "much".... what's the actual difference? what's the % difference?