Get some f*****g lights!!!!

[Flying_Monkey]

I have 2x fibre flare, 1x Blackburn mars 4.0 and a magicshine mj-818. And that's for commuting in London.

That's a lot of lighting and a lot of batteries involved... but I guess in London with all the other light sources around you'd probably need more to stand out. I don't think you have to go to quite such extremes where I live. I like the Fibreflares though... the all-round visibility issue is a serious one anywhere. May well have to invest in some, cheers.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

The results are very interesting, only 2% of the cyclists that wore just black where identified, 15% of the cyclists that wore a fluorescent vest where identified, 50% of the cyclists that wore the vest with reflective material where identified and a staggering 90% of cyclists that wore everything with reflective leg tape where identified.

But the test betrays the testers prejudices that hi-viz (fluro plus reflectives) is da biz.

Why no all black plus reflectives? and as I maintain to my dying day

"If they ain't looking they won't see you" no matter what you wear or how you are lit up.

 

[Silver Fox]

If a collision occurs between a motorist and cyclist one of the criteria to be considered would be was the cyclist there to be seen.

Whilst each case would be viewed on its merits, if a cyclist failed to take reasonable steps to make themselves as visible as possible, ie lights and / or bright clothing, then a prosecution against a driver may not proceed.

The majority of my riding is off road these days but when I was pounding the black stuff I always dressed in bright gear with lights as required, it's the common sense thing to do.

 

[ufkacbln]

But the test betrays the testers prejudices that hi-viz (fluro plus reflectives) is da biz.

Why no all black plus reflectives? and as I maintain to my dying day

"If they ain't looking they won't see you" no matter what you wear or how you are lit up.

The CTC campaigned against rear lights as it would change the priority from other road users seeing, to the cyclist "being seen"

This is where the "HiViz" argument becomes farcical.

Drivers can see black cars, dark grey lampposts, black bollards, black railings etc.

How is this possible?

 

[Ticktockmy]

Top news. Fancy meeting up for a pint over Xtmas?

Thats a idea?
I may well cruise by there this week somewhen and check it out see who the new owners are, there is a nice bridleway up from Near Buchan park/bewbush I can bimble along then Micks ride, mind i went through there a few weeks ago and the logging machines had made the ride rather exciting, more so now I guess it is icy

 

[Jezston]

But this

is not as good as the vest shown above, and this is the most popular thing you will see cyclists wearing when they are trying to be seen. Save your £60, and buy either a vest and some decent lights, or some decent lights!!

Oi!

I have one of those jackets - the grey one.

It's covered in reflectives (hence the name 'night vision') and is also rather nice and warm. £60 well spent i'd say!

Anyway, what a lot of these stats and studies is missing a couple of major points I would like to reaffirm:

1. High Vis is completely useless at night.
2. High Vis is eye poppingly light-shatteringly useful during DAYLIGHT, especially useful in overcast or misty conditions. The stuff reflects daylight like no light can.

 

[Jezston]

Drivers can see black cars, dark grey lampposts, black bollards, black railings etc.

How is this possible?

To be fair, black cars have to have lights on them, and lamposts, black bollards and railings don't tend to be in the middle of the road.

 

[gaz]

1. High Vis is completely useless at night.
2. High Vis is eye poppingly light-shatteringly useful during DAYLIGHT, especially useful in overcast or misty conditions. The stuff reflects daylight like no light can.

High Vis is technically the combination of a fluorescent material and reflective tape. Which means it should work well in all environments. But cycling gear that is labelled as high-viz, generally doesn't have enough reflective tape, and the studies show the place to wear it is on the legs!

 

[Jezston]

Sorry yes I should clarify by 'HiVis' I mean 'fluorescent'.

 

[Jezston]

Ok, to re-crystallise my own thoughts on the matter:

Fluorescents - useless at night, fantastic during the day (especially in poor conditions when everything else is grey)
Reflectives - ESSENTIAL at night, useless during the day
Lights - ESSENTIAL at night, useful-ish during the day.

One thing I really don't like is the whole wearing dark clothes and no reflectives but having lights more powerful than the sun style that seems to be popular. All you can see of that person at night is a couple of bright, sometimes flashing lights without knowing what the hell the lights are coming from. Some people seem to think it's a better idea to give a 'wtf' factor than clearly show you are a cyclist. I think that's a recipe for disaster.

 

[BentMikey]

They have told me what would help them and I have told them what helps me. It has been a productive exchange, I have helped to dispel some myths and misconceptions - and mostly it is about ignorance not aggression - and so far I have never felt in any fear for my life or that I was being bullied here. Of course that's not by any means possible in every situation, but it should tell all of us something about our assumptions of 'what drivers think'.

The ignorant drivers are rarely the problem, they are easy to re-educate. As for the rest, either you don't have much riding experience with London and UK traffic, or you've been cycling with blinkers on.

As for the assumptions, I think they are perhaps mostly on your part. I posted elsewhere that it's a very tiny minority of drivers that are a problem. I have 84 youtube-worthy incidents in almost two years and 360-odd commutes. That's around one dodgy driver in 4 commutes. I think each of my commutes has, at a complete guess, an average of perhaps 2000 driver interactions, I cover a lot of mileage in sometimes very dense traffic. One dodgy driver in 8,000 is amazingly small, even to me. I think cycling is very safe, as safe as many other day-to-day activities we take part in.

 

[BentMikey]

All you can see of that person at night is a couple of bright, sometimes flashing lights without knowing what the hell the lights are coming from. Some people seem to think it's a better idea to give a 'wtf' factor than clearly show you are a cyclist. I think that's a recipe for disaster.

WTF is an excellent strategy. It's exactly what you need to get more time and more space from drivers, some of whom otherwise wouldn't do so. It isn't about being seen, it's about the Theory of BIG. You've read about it, right?

 

[Banjo]

"That's not to mention the unlit cyclist on the pavement a couple of weeks back doing a rate of knots on the very steep downhill bit of London Road by the Commandery. He was within inches, quite literally of taking me out (I was in pedestrian mode). He was doing at least 20mph, probably more and he could have easily killed me.

I am losing sympathy rapidly with many of my fellow cyclists right now."


Their not cyclists mate, just ar$ehole$ on bikes.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I'm so tempted to rig up a crossbeam about 4ft wide and lash it to my bars with a pair of AyUps on each end, one white lamp facing front one saxon cap making red facing rear. and fit a number plate with "CYCLING" on my saddlebag with a lamp illuminating it.

excellent wtf? factor. bet the bar stewards would give me a wide berth then!

 

[Banjo]

I'm so tempted to rig up a crossbeam about 4ft wide and lash it to my bars with a pair of AyUps on each end, one white lamp facing front one saxon cap making red facing rear. and fit a number plate with "CYCLING" on my saddlebag with a lamp illuminating it.

excellent wtf? factor. bet the bar stewards would give me a wide berth then!

Havent seen anyone go to that extreme but I have seen a bike with a rear light on a stick poking out about 18 inches to the right.

On my commuter at the moment i have one light on the back of the rack in the center and one clipped to the back of the right side pannier. I definitely notice cars give me a slightly wider berth at night (slightly).