Grrrrr! Wahoo Kickr Snap.

[gbrown]

I would try using the Wahoo Fitness app to test the trainers resistance settings, eliminating Zwift and/or Bkool from the loop.

Pair the Wahoo Fitness app and do a spindown (calibration) and then go to erg mode and try 100 watts, 200 watts, 250 watts, etc. and see how it feels. Then switch to sim mode and try gradually increasing the gradient, and again see how realistic it feels. If it all checks out OK then it would imply that the basic trainer functions are fine.

Then if you still have problems in Zwift try it in bkool, and vice versa. If the problem occurs with both simulators it would imply that there is a problems with the trainers control protocols. If only with one simulator, then perhaps it's a pairing issue or a bug with that trainer.

If you are using bkool, and the Snap is the same as the KICKR then you should be able to pair it using either the Wahoo protocols or the ANT+ FE-C. If so, try pairing both and compare.

Since the Snap is not direct drive (like the KICKR) I would also check the tyre/roller interface, to ensure you are not getting slipping. Make sure the tyre pressure is high enough, most seem to use the maximum presure rated for the tyre, so get the best grip and hence the most reliable power transfer. Do you stand while climbing? Standing can increase the chances of tyre slippage.

Good Luck,

Geoff

 

[AlanW]

Thanks Geoff, very useful test data, I'll give all that a go later on when I get home.

I must admit that other than the numerous spin down tests I've done so far, I haven't explored the Wahoo Fitness app at all. But from the spin down tests I've done, I know that I can get it pretty much spot on and mid point between the 12 and 15 second recommend time scale for run down speed. I also know for sure that I am experiencing zero amount of tyre slip, its bespoke trainer tyre inflated to the max pressure rating as per the side wall recommendation. I never stand while climbing on the turbo, and very seldom when out in the real world either for that matter.

Watch this space as they say!

 

[AlanW]

It is frustrating, I had a problem with Bkool, which I have a paid subscription to until January. Paired the trainer fine, scheduled a ride and off I went, managed 500m up the Galibier sometimes spinning out and at others at a resistance so severe I couldn't turn the pedals. Gave up and went back to Zwift. Haven't done a spindown test yet so I am aware that power readings might well be awry, but touch wood I am not having any resistance issues and itt's the resistance control I'm after rather than power data. That said it does seem a little odd that my on the flat power is in excess of my climbing power.

Sounds like yours isn't performing as it should either based on what your saying then?

 

[Shamone]

Thanks Geoff, very useful test data, I'll give all that a go later on when I get home.

I must admit that other than the numerous spin down tests I've done so far, I haven't explored the Wahoo Fitness app at all. But from the spin down tests I've done, I know that I can get it pretty much spot on and mid point between the 12 and 15 second recommend time scale for run down speed. I also know for sure that I am experiencing zero amount of tyre slip, its bespoke trainer tyre inflated to the max pressure rating as per the side wall recommendation. I never stand while climbing on the turbo, and very seldom when out in the real world either for that matter.

Watch this space as they say!

Have you tried an advanced spin down?

 

[AlanW]

Right then, with a clear and calm head I set about starting all over again in setting the trainer up.

So first off I opened up Zwift on the PC and unpaired all devices and then closed it down. Then opened up the Wahoo app and unpaired all the devices, both Bluetooth and Ant+, then shut the app down.
To help me in adding the correct amount of resistance for the spin down tests I have put a white blob of Tippex on the Kickr Snap resistance adjusting knob when the tyre just touches the tyre. So I know from previous spin down tests, 1 ¾ turns is pretty much where I need to be to be in between the 12 and 15 seconds roll down time.

I open up the Wahoo app again and reconnect all the available devices, Kickr Snap, Garmin cadence sensor, Garmin speed sensor and Garmin heart rate strap. I now do a 12 minute warm and a fairly decent pace, average speed 20.7 mph to be precise. Now suitable warmed up, both me and the trainer, I do a standard spin down test. To be fair it’s within the recommend time scale, but I add another ¼ turn just out of curiosity to see what actually difference it makes to the roll down spin. Do a second spin down test, it’s made a slight difference but was enough to put me right in the middle of the required roll down speed. Happy days then.

Open up the Wahoo Fitness app, add to the saved devices all those items mentioned above. Once all paired, start a workout and go to the ERG tab and increase the wattage in one hundred chunks. Yep, that’s adding a suitable resistance as the wattage is increased, reset back down to 000 watts. Switch to SIM mode and repeat adding a gradient, and the same again, the resistance is being added to the trainer as it should. So the good news is that it would appear that the interface between the app and the trainer is working as it should. However, one thing that is notably is the fluctuation in the wattage reading in the app, its dancing all over the place? Maintaining the same speed and cadence, yet the wattage reading is varying quite dramatically?

Never the less, time for the next phase of the evenings tests. Close down the Wahoo app and open up Zwift and pair all available devices. Select the hilly route of Watopia so that I can give the trainer resistance a decent test scenario. And off we go, and straight away the most noticeable thing is the wattage reading skipping up and down? The first few miles on the flat so I was able to maintain the same speed and cadence, but the wattage figures varying by 20 or 30 watts? As I start the first ascent no resistance has kicked in but then slowly it starts to take effect. In comparison to my Tacx Vortex I had before there seems more of a delay in the resistance coming into effect, but maybe that’s just the trait of the Kickr Snap?

On the climb itself, it’s certainly kicked in now and again when comparing it to my Taxc Vortex it’s a lot harder, but then the Kickr Snap is capable of replicating a greater gradient, so it should be harder I guess? That said the effort that I had to apply in order to keep up with the others around me just didn’t seem quite right? I do a further few miles and on face value it “appears” to be functioning as it should but it does seem to require a lot of effort to stay with the group and of course the erratic wattage reading and the apparent delay in the resistance being added?

But then I now go for a sprint segment, (taking into account that I can normally get into the top 20, even got the green jersey once!) but according to the Zwift wattage reading I only achieved 423 watts’ max output, and placed me about 173rd? So this makes me question just how accurate the wattage measurement is with the Kickr Snap is, but I know that I can hit in excess of 900 watts, measured on a Watt bike?

So all in all, I’m not sure how I feel about it now? But without question the ride quality is spot on and so much better than the Tacx Vortex, but its fair to add that I have some niggles with it.

 

[Winnershsaint]

Sounds like yours isn't performing as it should either based on what your saying then?

Funny you should say that. I spoke too soon about Zwift. Yesterday evening I had something of a tech meltdown. Got sat on to do some 10 min tempo intervals on flat Watopia. First thing I noticed on the slight rise after the start was that there was no resistance kicking in. Nor coming out of the second tunnel so stopped after 2.6km. Second attempt had some resistance, but was patchy so I started a third time moving the Ant+ wire/adapter to a different USB port on my laptop whereupon everything worked at the third time of asking. Just to rub salt into wounds the first ride synced to Strava, but parts 2 and 3 didn't, so I will have to manually upload from documents on the laptop when at home this pm. Add to this a malfunctioning HRM and managing to disable my new Ipad for the best part of the evening it wasn't the greatest tech day I've ever had

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

I had to move my ant+ stick the other day for same reason*

*Im using a dumb trainer with power and hr currently but had a meltdown anyway

 

[AlanW]

This from Zwift make for interesting reading - HERE and just about sums up the problem that I think I have?

Needless to say, I have a friend coming round later on this evening with a iPhone and we'll do a advanced spin down test using that. Be interesting to see if it alters things or not. If not then I'm pretty certain that its going back to Wiggle!

 

[Winnershsaint]

I really want to stick with this trainer, but given the inauspicious start out the box and Bkool issue it will be going back to Wiggle if I get any more issues.

 

[AlanW]

I really want to stick with this trainer, but given the inauspicious start out the box and Bkool issue it will be going back to Wiggle if I get any more issues.

For reasons yet unknown in my head, but I'm now toying with the wild notion of exchanging my Snap for the big brother Kickr?

 

[nico88]

Question for those with Snaps - during both the Advanced and Standard spindown tests, does your wheel actually come to a stop?

Every time I've done the spindowns it says "complete" when the wheel is still spinning pretty quickly (probably around 15km/h).

Is this normal?

 

[uclown2002]

For reasons yet unknown in my head, but I'm now toying with the wild notion of exchanging my Snap for the big brother Kickr?

I doubt you'll regret it.

I've upgraded to a Tacx Neo and it's blown me away

 

[AlanW]

I doubt you'll regret it.

I've upgraded to a Tacx Neo and it's blown me away

Your right, and what a piece of kit it is too!! Certainly a game changer and I love the "road feel" going over the cobbles and the wooden bridges, what next are they going to introduce in the virtual world I wonder?

 

[AlanW]

Question for those with Snaps - during both the Advanced and Standard spindown tests, does your wheel actually come to a stop?

Every time I've done the spindowns it says "complete" when the wheel is still spinning pretty quickly (probably around 15km/h).

Is this normal?

When I had mine it was still slightly spinning even though the tests said complete.

 

[Winnershsaint]

Question for those with Snaps - during both the Advanced and Standard spindown tests, does your wheel actually come to a stop?

Every time I've done the spindowns it says "complete" when the wheel is still spinning pretty quickly (probably around 15km/h).

Is this normal?

Mine does that also.