Guardian article(with links) about why female cyclists are more vulnerable to lorries

[Origamist]

I've found the TfL list, but there's a restriction on the size of attachments I can upload here.

Can anyone suggest a way around this?

What TFL report have you got? I'd be surprised if I have not posted a link!

 

[Origamist]

Pedal Cyclist Fatalities - January 1999 - October 2006 (provisional)

Can't find a link on the web.

Let me know if you track it down. This is closest I know, but a diff date range:

http://londonroadsafety.tfl.gov.uk/...research_police-collision-files_2001-2006.pdf

 

[BADGER.BRAD]

Ban cyclists and get more congestion, more pollution, a greater strain on the NHS due to increased public health problems etc etc etc.

My idea of a cycling ban was a bit of a joke of course, and I think the ideas you mentioned as regard to delivery's within cities make a lot of sense as would any other safety measures the only thing I would say is are you prepared to pay more for your goods within a city to allow for all the extra logistic head aches this causes with vehicles being unusable for certain parts of the day especially as UK based Haulage firms are stressed to the limits at the moment , it may prove to be a case of more work for foreign hauliers who can afford the extra hassle yet don't understand our road regulations.

 

[dondare]

My recipe for safe movement of freight:
No artics within city limits.
Nothing bigger than a double-decker bus within city limits.
Drivers cab low down and all-round visibility; like a bus in fact.

Buses are designed to be used in towns. (Yes I know about that accident in Oxford Street.)

 

[dondare]

Thanks for that post.

Now, who do we blame for not having the rail network we used to have?

Marples & Beeching.

 

[dondare]

Marples & Beeching.

Although it's a bit more complicated than that. Rail haulage was practically designed to fail, in much the same way that the Royal Mail is now.

 

[summerdays]

Bristol have run a scheme to reduce the number of HGVs in the city centre. I've got links to the positives (congestrion and CO2 down), but I'd be interested to hear if anyone has a balanced review of the scheme....

What's the details of that scheme User? They are definitely not banned in the parts of the city I frequent ... I think I must see a huge number recently ... though it doesn't help that I was working very close to a construction site this week ... so there were probably 5-10 per hour of the large tipper ones. And considering they were crossing a well used route by cyclists I was surprised there weren't any accidents there.

 

[brokenbetty]

If anyone can come up with a more cost effective way of transporting goods that's both social and environmentally friendly - then I'm all ears.

Zeppelins! Hot air balloons on tethered tracks running like monorails high above London

No cyclist will get squiched ever again

 

[Rhythm Thief]

If we accept that big trucks aren't essential in city centres, which you seem to have by your diversionary questioning, then the discussion starts about priorities and compromise.

There is plenty that can be done to reduce the risk that HGVs present, and the first step is to accept that things don't have to be the way they are. Because the current behaviour is not essential.

Surely a more relevant qeustion is, are 24 transit vans, usually often sometimes driven by unqualified spotty herberts with car licences who firmly believe themselves to be Giants of the Road, more dangerous than a single artic?

 

[Rhythm Thief]

Jesus. I did about three weeks on Sainsbury's home delivery vans out of the Wolverhampton store. I hated every minute of it.

 

[D-Rider]

Back to the original argument about women cyclists I would agree that they as a general rule fail to command their road space and are much more timid on our roads and by not doing so encourage others to try and squeeze past we all know that other road users need to know what you are going to do by your positioning signaling and so forth. I wonder how many of these women who have been killed had a driving license giving them understanding of how the roads work.

<deep sigh>

On my commute I see lots of cyclists who are timid, not taking their place in traffic flow, staying in the gutter etc. The vast majority of these cyclists are male. Naturally enough since most cyclists I see are male.

This is an education and experience issue. Nothing to do with gender.

 

[summerdays]

Maybe both sexes have cyclists who are timid etc, but the fact that females are less strong in general means they are slightly slower at starting? That doesn't explain away all of the bias to female fatalities especially of those experienced female cyclists who have been killed.

 

[theclaud]

TheClaud, (OT) have a read about 'Index of Empathy for Children and Adolescents' and also 'Interpersonal Reactivity Index', both show girls getting generally higher scores than boys unless there is some autistic aspect in the subject.

Mind you, it will probably be as valid as Freud's mother fixation within the next decade, much like a lot of established psychology.
I also dispute the strength bit, being a bit of a 10 stone weakling myself...

I don't really see why those indices wouldn't fall foul of the inherent problems I mentioned earlier. It could just as well indicate that different qualities and abilities are valued/encouraged/punished differently in boys and girls, and have nothing whatever to do with capability. I teach adult women (complete beginners) to cycle. Actually, I teach adults of both sexes, but in practice they are almost all female. It's quite clear from talking to them that their main reason for not cycling, or for cycling very nervously, is that when they were children it was one of the many things that was Not Really For Girls. They have internalized this belief to a greater or lesser extent. Women that have managed not to internalize it seem to me to cycle in exactly the same way as men. Other things that girls tend to have been criticized for include assertiveness, self-confidence, risk-taking, and of course the belief that they are entitled to be treated as equals. All of which are part of the mix needed to survive on, never mind enjoy, the roads.

 

[Wheeledweenie]

I don't really see why those indices wouldn't fall foul of the inherent problems I mentioned earlier. It could just as well indicate that different qualities and abilities are valued/encouraged/punished differently in boys and girls, and have nothing whatever to do with capability. I teach adult women (complete beginners) to cycle. Actually, I teach adults of both sexes, but in practice they are almost all female. It's quite clear from talking to them that their main reason for not cycling, or for cycling very nervously, is that when they were children it was one of the many things that was Not Really For Girls. They have internalized this belief to a greater or lesser extent. Women that have managed not to internalize it seem to me to cycle in exactly the same way as men. Other things that girls tend to have been criticized for include assertiveness, self-confidence, risk-taking, and of course the belief that they are entitled to be treated as equals. All of which are part of the mix needed to survive on, never mind enjoy, the roads.

Al of this resonates with me. I've been told several times that I'm an unusually confident female cyclist. It's always been a nagging suspicion that it's because I'm one of three girls and my dad never subscribed to the 'not for girls' rhetoric. I played rugby, was an air cadet and, as a cyclist, I don't see myself as different to the boys. The women I've encouraged or spoken to about cycling don't seem to have this innate sense of entitlement to cycle on the road. I don't think I'm better than anyone, I just know I'm allowed to so I do.

 

[theclaud]

Al of this resonates with me. I've been told several times that I'm an unusually confident female cyclist. It's always been a nagging suspicion that it's because I'm one of three girls and my dad never subscribed to the 'not for girls' rhetoric. I played rugby, was an air cadet and, as a cyclist, I don't see myself as different to the boys. The women I've encouraged or spoken to about cycling don't seem to have this innate sense of entitlement to cycle on the road. I don't think I'm better than anyone, I just know I'm allowed to so I do.

'Zactly. And I can confirm that WW pilots a tandem with as much verve and adventurousness as any male tandemist I've seen, but looks rather better (and I'm sure he won't mind my saying this) than Wowbagger would in bunches and pink stockings...