Have you skidded on 'tramline tile' surfaces ?

[Dadam]

Not really a problem if you are on a tadpole trike.

Really? You might not come off but you could still swap ends and head backward into the road.
Ask Freddie Flintoff if 3 wheels are automatically safe!

 

[mjr]

Really? You might not come off but you could still swap ends and head backward into the road.
Ask Freddie Flintoff if 3 wheels are automatically safe!

I think a bigger risk for tadpole trikes is they skid the wrong way and hit a front wheel on the signpost that councils typically install right on the corner of these tiles, as shown in the opening post.

 

[Mr Celine]

To access the bridge over the Ettrick Water on the right I have to squeeze past this abomination on the left to reach the ramp beyond.
Curved ridge tiles are lethal.

 

[MontyVeda]

View attachment 733029
To access the bridge over the Ettrick Water on the right I have to squeeze past this abomination on the left to reach the ramp beyond.
Curved ridge tiles are lethal.

Those look like a tactile surface for visually impaired peds to me.

 

[Ajax Bay]

To access the bridge over the Ettrick Water on the right I have to squeeze past this abomination on the left to reach the ramp beyond.
Curved ridge tiles are lethal.

Those look like a tactile surface for visually impaired peds to me.

Yesbut. Ridged tiles are really only an issue when they are slippy, when their corrugation makes the surface slippier than plain. Knobbly versions are slippy (damp/wet) too but corrugated are worse (mossy bits, retained water effect) plus the channels offer that bit more front wheel misdirection challenge.
Are 'curved' corrugated tiles any more "lethal" than straight, to quote your hyperbole? I guess their use (as in image above) implies that the bicycle will be on a shallow turn, so this is more appropriate cornering speed.
@mjr will know much more.

 

[Mr Celine]

Are 'curved' corrugated tiles any more "lethal" than straight, to quote your hyperbole? I guess their use (as in image above) implies that the bicycle will be on a shallow turn, so this is more appropriate cornering speed.
@mjr will know much more.

Dunno, I only went over them once and learned never to do that again. The route is from bottom left of the pic to the switchback ramp beyond, so any turn is against the curve of the grooves.

The one time I did go over them the ridges caught the front wheel causing an unexpected sudden turn. I managed to get a foot down without falling off.
AFAIK it hasn't injured anyone but I really don't fancy hitting my head on a sharp-edged granite step.

If they are supposed to help blind or partially sighted pedestrians they would be more use at the top of the steps than the bottom.

 

[mjr]

To access the bridge over the Ettrick Water on the right I have to squeeze past this abomination on the left to reach the ramp beyond.
Curved ridge tiles are lethal.

Are 'curved' corrugated tiles any more "lethal" than straight, to quote your hyperbole? I guess their use (as in image above) implies that the bicycle will be on a shallow turn, so this is more appropriate cornering speed.

The combination of curve and corduroy (round-top instead of the flat-top tiles used for cycleways) is far worse because riders who stray into it have almost no chance of holding a straight line through it and avoiding the attempt to turn their front wheel. It will steer them slightly right while they are trying to go straight or slightly left to head for the ramp, so try to tip them off.

@mjr will know much more.

Only what's in the DfT "Guidance on the use of Tactile Paving Surfaces" here. Chapter 2 has the description for steps and those tiles look correct for "steps in the direct line of pedestrian travel". However, if people walking have to turn to reach them, they could have got away with one row of tiles, which is both cheaper and less hazardous.

If they are supposed to help blind or partially sighted pedestrians they would be more use at the top of the steps than the bottom.

DfT says to put them at both. I think it helps people tapping with canes to differentiate a bottom step they can go up from a low wall they shouldn't.

My main problem with that layout is the routing of cyclists past the bottom of steps on a narrow strip of flat surface. What's that granite-looking block narrowing the effective width of the strip by its width plus 500mm? Is it meant to be a seat? Who the fark wants to sit looking squarely at a big flight of fairly ugly steps? That should have been relocated somewhere nicer and then, if the route past the bottom still isn't wide enough, that space isn't big enough for those steps and either more space should be surfaced or the step design changed (maybe to a more conventional straight flight along the wall).

If that was a recent construction near me, I'd be requesting the safety audits of those steps and checking whether the builders or council even noticed the totally unnecessary crash hazard they were creating.

 

[silica]

I've got to admit I don't really get it either, unless you're going at a weird angle over them I can't see how there's going to be an issue: they're not slippery unless covered in ice/leaves.

risk level depends on
▪︎ tyre type thickness and tread ( narrow bald/smooth higher)
▪︎ angle of approach (hard turn higher)
▪︎ speed (slower speed required for pedestrian heightens risk cyclist loss of control)
▪︎ weather (wet smooth non-grip surface higher)
▪︎ bicycle load (child seat, panier, etc add risk)
Cyclists expect to reduce speed at CTS junctions. The tactile pattern should be both an accessibility aid for visually-impaired and a speed warning to cyclists. Placed transverse to cycleway aids pedestrian and cyclist.

 

[Ajax Bay]

risk level depends on
▪︎ tyre type thickness and tread ( narrow bald/smooth higher)
▪︎ angle of approach (hard turn higher)
▪︎ speed (slower speed required for pedestrian heightens risk cyclist loss of control)
▪︎ weather (wet smooth non-grip surface higher)
▪︎ bicycle load (child seat, panier, etc add risk)
Cyclists expect to reduce speed at CTS junctions. The tactile pattern should be both an accessibility aid for visually-impaired and a speed warning to cyclists. Placed transverse to cycleway aids pedestrian and cyclist.

if I didn't say so when you joined, and thank you for the information you added upthread, however:

• Would you like to explain why you think a "bald" or "smooth" bicycle tyre on these surfaces are "higher risk"? As opposed to a bicycle tyre with tread of some sort. Or are you copy and pasting this from somewhere (if so link please)?
• Isn't the angle of approach always 0? Isn't it the rate of change in direction which increases risk. It's the corrugations which can adversely affect steering ime.
• The speed bullet lacks clarity (for me anyway). Good idea to 'enter' with no requirement for any further braking.
• Aren't these tiles deliberately made to be as grippy as the asphalt alongside? If not, why not?
• Why does an increase in bicycle load "add risk"? Is there particular risk on the these tiles with increased load? I fail to see why.

 

[Jody]

risk level depends on
▪︎ tyre type thickness and tread ( narrow bald/smooth higher)

Comound can play a big part also

• Would you like to explain why you think a "bald" or "smooth" bicycle tyre on these surfaces are "higher risk"? As opposed to a bicycle tyre with tread of some sort. Or are you copy and pasting this from somewhere (if so link please)?

Knobblies (especially soft compound) won't snatch or push as much as a slick would due to the knobs deforming. The deformation/lower pressures also help to maintain grip.

 

[mjr]

[*]Aren't these tiles deliberately made to be as grippy as the asphalt alongside? If not, why not?

No, most tactile tiles seem to be fairly smooth concrete. Not totally smooth like guideline tactiles, but nowhere near as grippy as hot rolled asphalt, microasphalt or the varieties of asphalt concrete typically used for cycleways. Smoother than rectangular paving blocks used in 80s/90s shopping streets but grippier than most cut stone paving slabs. In the wet, you can hear a change in the noise of tyre against ground as you ride onto and off of them (apart from the usual bumps on and off because few councils are competent enough to put them in flush with the ground). I expect it's difficult to make them out of asphalt, but I don't know why they don't have a coarse surface like the paving blocks. Maybe they can't get consistent ridges with it.

 

[rydabent]

Really? You might not come off but you could still swap ends and head backward into the road.
Ask Freddie Flintoff if 3 wheels are automatically safe!

Just counter steer like you do in a car when it starts skidding. Not a problem.

 

[silica]

ordinary cyclists if all ages, maybe with child seat or for any reason shouldn't be asked to counter steer. These are being used in cities around traffic. It's not about racing situations. nor is grip the only issue. a wheel hitting a ridge can throw a cyclist

 

[silica]

if I didn't say so when you joined, and thank you for the information you added upthread, however:

• Would you like to explain why you think a "bald" or "smooth" bicycle tyre on these surfaces are "higher risk"? As opposed to a bicycle tyre with tread of some sort. Or are you copy and pasting this from somewhere (if so link please)?
• Isn't the angle of approach always 0? Isn't it the rate of change in direction which increases risk. It's the corrugations which can adversely affect steering ime.
• The speed bullet lacks clarity (for me anyway). Good idea to 'enter' with no requirement for any further braking.
• Aren't these tiles deliberately made to be as grippy as the asphalt alongside? If not, why not?
• Why does an increase in bicycle load "add risk"? Is there particular risk on the these tiles with increased load? I fail to see why.

▪︎ smooth tyres have less grip in wet conditions
▪︎ turning onto the cycleway from road crossing will be 90°
▪︎ cyclist should always slow approaching/crossing a junction (these are for visually-impaired pedestrians after all, but even sighted pedestrians should expect cyclists to slow at crossing points)
▪︎ loaded bicycles require more skill to negotiate turns and road surfaces etc

 

[Punkawallah]

Yeah. Winter frozen rain made my local one an ice rink. Now use the transverse side in adverse weather conditions.