Headsets again...

[theclaud]

Sorry - please indulge another stupid headset question. I'm confronted with new-fangled things that Don't Look The Same as They Used To, and it's hurting my brain.

My very nice LBS fitted a headset for me and kept the loose parts attached with a cable tie. When I went to fit the fork it seemed to me that, compared to other headsets I have known, there was a bit missing - a conical ring with a split in it that sort of centres the steerer and snuggles everything together nicely. So I popped back in and asked for the missing piece. He told me these kind of headsets don't have one (he wasn't fobbing me off - he was convinced). I went back and put it all together without and, well, it just feels as if it should be there, and I'm not happy with its absence. It's a fairly ordinary Ritchey logic headset - nothing integrated or fancy. Has anyone else got one without a conical thingy, or should I continue the quest for the missing piece?

 

[GilesM]

Have a look at this exploded drawing:

http://www.hopetech.com/database/Headset_expl.gif

(Ritchey don't seem to have one on their website, but I'm sure it's similar)

Is the bit you are refering to indetified as part No. 6 in the diagram, if so, I would have thought that there should be one, the cartridge bearing will not be a tight fit around the fork steerer so there must be something to centre the fork. Can you take a wee pic of the bits you do have.

 

[Rob3rt]

I have a Ritchey headset on my Track bike, its a Ritchey LB 1 1/8″ Threadless, according to a quick google so not sure how similar to your headset this is? I should be pulling it apart in the next week or so to get the frame powder coated, so I'll take photo's of all the bits that come out and post it for you.

 

[GilesM]

Also have a look here:

http://www.ritcheylogic.com/media/File/4718_RitcheyForkHeadsetEN20090923web.pdf

It does mention in the sections about the headset that there is a bearing cone, this would indicate that you may have something missing.

 

[theclaud]

Have a look at this exploded drawing:

http://www.hopetech.com/database/Headset_expl.gif

(Ritchey don't seem to have one on their website, but I'm sure it's similar)

Is the bit you are refering to indetified as part No. 6 in the diagram, if so, I would have thought that there should be one, the cartridge bearing will not be a tight fit around the fork steerer so there must be something to centre the fork. Can you take a wee pic of the bits you do have.

Blimey - that's super-exploded. It's at home, but yes that's the thing I meant. The parts I have (from the bottom upwards) are the race that fits on the fork, cartridge bearing, the cup that fits into the bottom of the head tube, cup that fits in the top of the head tube, cartridge bearing, a cover that fits over that but doesn't fit snugly round the steerer, and the star nut and top cap that I will be replacing with an expanding plug...

 

[GilesM]

Blimey - that's super-exploded. It's at home, but yes that's the thing I meant. The parts I have (from the bottom upwards) are the race that fits on the fork, cartridge bearing, the cup that fits into the bottom of the head tube, cup that fits in the top of the head tube, cartridge bearing, a cover that fits over that but doesn't fit snugly round the steerer, and the star nut and top cap that I will be replacing with an expanding plug...

Yes, I reckon there is something missing, something needs to apply pressure to the inside diameter of the top cartridge bearing, otherwise you cannot correctly adjust the headset.

As for the Hope diagram, things like that are one of the reason I buy Hope stuff, cost a bit more somtimes, but the info you can get from Hope, either via their website or from contacting them is second to none.

 

[PpPete]

No help to the OP, but looking at the exploded diagram I'm tempted to ask:

"WTF was wrong with quill stems? Why do we need all this complexity of multiple O-rings, spacers etc?"

I know that one day the immutable law of N+1 means that I will eventually acquire a bike which does NOT have a quill stem, but I can't say I'm looking forward to it.

 

[theclaud]

I have a Ritchey headset on my Track bike, its a Ritchey LB 1 1/8″ Threadless, according to a quick google so not sure how similar to your headset this is? I should be pulling it apart in the next week or so to get the frame powder coated, so I'll take photo's of all the bits that come out and post it for you.

Thanks! Mine's a 1" - it's just what the LBS happened to have in the right size. I've decided I don't much like Ritchey components - if I can't solve the missing-piece thing I might get something else.

 

[theclaud]

Yes, I reckon there is something missing, something needs to apply pressure to the inside diameter of the top cartridge bearing, otherwise you cannot correctly adjust the headset.

As for the Hope diagram, things like that are one of the reason I buy Hope stuff, cost a bit more somtimes, but the info you can get from Hope, either via their website or from contacting them is second to none.

There is one slightly complicating factor, which is that the cover that fits over the top cartridge bearing does have a sloping interior surface - leading me to think that the LBS is right and it might be intended to replace both the conical thing and the cover with a single piece. But because it's not split it just doesn't seem to do the same job...

 

[BigSteev]

"WTF was wrong with quill stems? Why do we need all this complexity of multiple O-rings, spacers etc?"

Why do you find Aheadsets complicated? Compared to archaic loose-ball, continually coming loose, old style headsets they are a breeze.

 

[theclaud]

Why do you find Aheadsets complicated? Compared to archaic loose-ball, continually coming loose, old style headsets they are a breeze.

Yes I quite liked them until I met this one...

 

[Rob3rt]

No problem, I have no knowledge of headsets, I only have it because it was off the shelf bike with Ritchey components, I hear Ritchey made decent kit though, the Boardman bikes come will Ritchey finishing kit too. Probly replace it with Halo or Cane Creek at some point though because they usually offer more colour options it would seem.

 

[GilesM]

Porkypete, they look a bit more complex, but they do have their advantages, unitl a few years ago I only had bikes with quill stems, but I have now been converted, and when you look at the Hope or Thomson X4 stems, they really of a thing of engineering beauty, however I used to think the same about the Cinelli 1A stems.

 

[PpPete]

Why do you find Aheadsets complicated? Compared to archaic loose-ball, continually coming loose, old style headsets they are a breeze.

I know i'm a luddite really....

but quills with cartridge bearings do exist.
And with the notable exception of my hack which is built of entirely recycled junk, none of my quills have ever come loose.

 

[GilesM]

There is one slightly complicating factor, which is that the cover that fits over the top cartridge bearing does have a sloping interior surface - leading me to think that the LBS is right and it might be intended to replace both the conical thing and the cover with a single piece. But because it's not split it just doesn't seem to do the same job...

That would work aswell, as long as the diameter at the tip of the cone is smaller than the inside diameter of the top cartridge bearing, and the taper matches the taper on the inside of the top cartridge bearing (I think that makes sense) it will work, with the stem bolts (the ones that hold the stem to the fork steerer) just touch tight, tighten the bolt through the centre of the stem/fork steerer, you should be able to feel if it is working properly just by rotating the forks, make sure the front wheel is out, the extra weight of the front wheel makes it harder to feel the perfect headset adjustment. Apologies if I'm insulting your ability with too much detail, don't mean to.