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youngoldbloke

The older I get, the faster I used to be ...
Katherine Whitehorn column in today's Observer, 'The trouble with cyclists', usual stuff... pavement riding.... red lights. Old biddy must have been desperate for an idea for today's column - about time she was put out to graze.
 

Sara_H

Guru
Stupid, lazy piece of writing.

I feel a letter coming on!
 

downfader

extimus uero philosophus
Location
'ampsheeeer
Stupid, lazy piece of writing.

I feel a letter coming on!
If you want the stats then check out:

http://www.ctc.org.uk/resources/Campaigns/1110_Cyclists-behaviour-and-law__4M__brf_rev_.pdf for references to the law and some data on how many pedestrians get hurt

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/businessandpartners/traffic-note-8-cycling-red-lights.pdf shows that 87% of cyclists obeyed the light signals. I dont think that any incidence of collision was recorded when the study was being done.

Oh and the column can be read here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/mar/04/cycling-pedestrians-road-use-katharine-whitehorn
 

Primal Scream

Get your rocks off
Ok, neck out time, we all know that there is a minority that RLJ and pavement rise as well as the idiots with no lights (or brains for that matter), the actions of these morons (a minority as I said but tbh a sizeable minority) give us all a bad name.

So if the article is about said morons then she is right and I agree so long as she does not include the decent majority in her condemnation.
 

Rancid

Active Member
Location
Saff Landin
Ok, neck out time, we all know that there is a minority that RLJ and pavement rise as well as the idiots with no lights (or brains for that matter), the actions of these morons (a minority as I said but tbh a sizeable minority) give us all a bad name.

So if the article is about said morons then she is right and I agree so long as she does not include the decent majority in her condemnation.

is it really the minority ?
 

naffer

New Member
Hi there, totally new to the forum and stumbled across it searching for a forum on London cycling. This thread seemed like a suitable flashpoint to join in. I haven't read the article and I'm guessing it probably easy very lazy journalism likely to wind up sensible and committed cyclists. I'm a keen mountain biker and started using Boris Bikes in town back in December. I knew it would take some adjustment to hairing along single track, but it has been nothing short of a joy. No more tube, lots more to see and really very little trouble from motorists if you play it by the book. The thing that has absolutely astounded me has been the other cyclists. Now it may be the routes I take, but I would say that on every journey I see more than one act of lunacy from a cyclist, one act of unnecessary aggression and plenty of things that don't do cyclists any favours at all (talking on phone while moving, plugged into ipods, jumping lights, swerving in and out of slow moving cars, no lights). I was so ready to side so far to the cyclist in discussions about the perils of London and the thoughtlessness of drivers, but I've been truly shocked by the vast majority of cyclists that I've seen. I'm very aware of Boris Bikers in the pecking order, and I've seen them doing the same stuff as others. I suppose the point of this post is to say how disappointed I am with the cycling fraternity, having looked forward to being part of it.
 

Rancid

Active Member
Location
Saff Landin
LOL way to get stuck in with your first post.
not that its going to help but i can only agree with your post and its sentiments.

a majority of the people on bikes should not be on the road as they are a clear danger to both themselves and everyone else.
 

dawesome

Senior Member
And yet cyclists are rarely tyhe cause of accidents, it's almost always the driver's fault. Cyclists are not the danger on the roads, more cyclists = safer roads.
 
OP
OP
youngoldbloke

youngoldbloke

The older I get, the faster I used to be ...
LOL way to get stuck in with your first post.
not that its going to help but i can only agree with your post and its sentiments.

a majority of the people on bikes should not be on the road as they are a clear danger to both themselves and everyone else.

- if that's the case it is amazing that there aren't more casualities - pedestrian and cyclist! I don't know much about London's cyclists, there is a lot more to the UK than the SE, and I am sick of London-centric artcles in National newspapers. I agree it is lazy, stupid journalism, and I am amazed that her editor allowed it. Why isn't she complaining about cars on pavements, cars, trucks, buses, motor cycles RLJing and killing and maiming pedestrians - the figures are available, see downfader's link above. I know - it's all been said before .....
 

Mad at urage

New Member
Hi there, totally new to the forum and stumbled across it searching for a forum on London cycling. This thread seemed like a suitable flashpoint to join in. I haven't read the article and I'm guessing it probably easy very lazy journalism likely to wind up sensible and committed cyclists. I'm a keen mountain biker and started using Boris Bikes in town back in December. I knew it would take some adjustment to hairing along single track, but it has been nothing short of a joy. No more tube, lots more to see and really very little trouble from motorists if you play it by the book. The thing that has absolutely astounded me has been the other cyclists. Now it may be the routes I take, but I would say that on every journey I see more than one act of lunacy from a cyclist, one act of unnecessary aggression and plenty of things that don't do cyclists any favours at all (talking on phone while moving, plugged into ipods, jumping lights, swerving in and out of slow moving cars, no lights). I was so ready to side so far to the cyclist in discussions about the perils of London and the thoughtlessness of drivers, but I've been truly shocked by the vast majority of cyclists that I've seen. I'm very aware of Boris Bikers in the pecking order, and I've seen them doing the same stuff as others. I suppose the point of this post is to say how disappointed I am with the cycling fraternity, having looked forward to being part of it.
On every journey I take, I see car drivers talking on the phone while moving, listening to radio (often v. loud), jumping lights, swerving in and out of queues (especially on the motorway), faulty lights, no signals, RLJing (one recently overtook me as I stopped at the lights, single carriageway, roadworks with oncoming traffic), aggressive overtaking, tailgating.... Funny how this rarely gets the same universal labeling and condemnation.
 

deptfordmarmoset

Full time tea drinker
Location
Armonmy Way
Because we're an out group.

Yes. And I don't think it's to do with being outnumbered because these articles seem to coexist with with the increase in cycling numbers - in fact we're no longer an insignificant minority. But I do wish we could settle on using the word scapegoat instead of out group. Calling a spade a spade and all that....
 

naffer

New Member
Hey, I might as well continue (knowing full well I've joined with a fairly contentious first post). There are a huge amount of column inches given to fighting the cyclists cause in London - particularly from the Evening Standard, so it's not a case of total persecution by the media. If anything, the balance is probably pro-cyclist.

I'm not saying that people don't do daft things or have bad attitudes in motor vehicles like User highlights, although I can honestly say that since biking in town I haven't seen much dodgy driving - one instance of a chauffeur driving within a mm of me and a couple of dozy buses, but that's it. Plenty of pedestrians hop off the pavements onto cycle lanes though, but actually it's pretty easy to see which ones are going to do that in most cases. I'm just resigned to it, I slow down, watch them step in front of me and then they're usually fairly apologetic. I gain seconds on my journey, but we're all smiles and everything is ok. Every day I see cyclists making a big deal of it and being really aggressive to the pedestrians - I even saw a fight two weeks ago because of what the cyclist called the pedestrian. It just depresses me a bit, because it's hard to be righteous when there's so much iffy behaviour from cyclists. More examples: lots of buses will pull in at stops along my route. I see them start to indicate, so I slow and let them pull in. I'll then have three cyclists, overtake me and then swerve left to nip in and undertake the bus, so it can't pull over at the stop. That's just plain inconsiderate and also dangerous. But it happens every day and multiple times along the route. I know people on here will have a million horror stories about drivers etc and I'm not dismissing them - all those kinds of situations shouldn't happen. I just think that London cyclists in general have a poor attitude, very poor road sense and a blinkered view of how they should be treated on the road.

Honestly not trying to flame the thread!
 
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