High-viz jackets.
- Thread starter allen-uk
- Start date
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BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
Good point about the flashing light - I've started a new topic to see what others' strategies are.
EMD's comment is because I'm not a hiviz believer - I don't think it adds anything significant to our safety on the roads. The problem for us as cyclists is not being seen, but having drivers look in the first place, notice and actually give a toss. Hopefully you won't feel "head-bitten-off".
EMD's comment is because I'm not a hiviz believer - I don't think it adds anything significant to our safety on the roads. The problem for us as cyclists is not being seen, but having drivers look in the first place, notice and actually give a toss. Hopefully you won't feel "head-bitten-off".
Yes, I got the picture!
I do stand by my comments to this extent: I am a car driver who cares about safety (passed my IAM just to show my intentions in that direction).
And I don't think that when I'm cycling and wearing my high-visibility jacket that I'm particularly safe but I think it's better than wearing all black. Everybody who uses the roads has a responsibility to try and make them safer, even if most car drivers are idiots.
Head still in place, so far...
A
I do stand by my comments to this extent: I am a car driver who cares about safety (passed my IAM just to show my intentions in that direction).
And I don't think that when I'm cycling and wearing my high-visibility jacket that I'm particularly safe but I think it's better than wearing all black. Everybody who uses the roads has a responsibility to try and make them safer, even if most car drivers are idiots.
Head still in place, so far...
A
hackbike 666
Guest
Agree with allen and I have asked many motorists what they prefer.
I do tend to talk to motorists at work.Then again if you are motorist you know what you prefer and what looks invisible.
Fortunately for BentMikey he has super night time vision.Something Im not blessed with.
How many times have I heard this from wise old motons?
Lots of times that's how many.
I do tend to talk to motorists at work.Then again if you are motorist you know what you prefer and what looks invisible.
Fortunately for BentMikey he has super night time vision.Something Im not blessed with.
How many times have I heard this from wise old motons?
Lots of times that's how many.
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
I rode up behind a cyclist the other night, with a single flashing rear light, and hiviz. The hiviz was almost unnoticeable by comparison with his rear light. I'm not sure what the light was, but it was about as bright as a Cateye TL-LD600 (the 5 LED jobbie). Even the jacket reflectives weren't particularly visible in the shine back from my Fenix on 120 lumen mode, and in that from the cars passing us by.
Hiviz is a rabbit's foot - it might make you feel better, but if you have decent legal lights and bike reflectors, it's a waste of time for improving your safety. Spend the effort instead on cycle craft, lessons if need be, and you'll get 100 times the improvement in safety.
Pity my video ran out of batteries.
Hiviz is a rabbit's foot - it might make you feel better, but if you have decent legal lights and bike reflectors, it's a waste of time for improving your safety. Spend the effort instead on cycle craft, lessons if need be, and you'll get 100 times the improvement in safety.
Pity my video ran out of batteries.
hackbike 666
Guest
I saw a cyclist last night dressed all in black with two front lights one flashing which became invisible once he was in traffic.
it might make you feel better, but if you have decent legal lights and bike reflectors, it's a waste of time for improving your safety. Spend the effort instead on cycle craft, lessons if need be, and you'll get 100 times the improvement in safety.
How the hell does it make me feel better?
It keeps me warm in this weather granted but apart from that half the time im not even aware I am wearing it.I think on the odd occasion i've forgotten to put it on.It's just an extra measure a bit like putting an etra lock on your front door.
Also stop telling me what to do.I don't tell you how to cycle and it's getting nauseating now.
it might make you feel better, but if you have decent legal lights and bike reflectors, it's a waste of time for improving your safety. Spend the effort instead on cycle craft, lessons if need be, and you'll get 100 times the improvement in safety.
How the hell does it make me feel better?
It keeps me warm in this weather granted but apart from that half the time im not even aware I am wearing it.I think on the odd occasion i've forgotten to put it on.It's just an extra measure a bit like putting an etra lock on your front door.
Also stop telling me what to do.I don't tell you how to cycle and it's getting nauseating now.
hackbike 666
Guest
Read my above comment.
Are you two taking me as a real mug because that is the way it is coming across on here.
Are you two taking me as a real mug because that is the way it is coming across on here.
purplepolly
New Member
- Location
- my house
BentMikey said:
On my way home the other night there was a cyclist about 20 meters ahead with two good rear lights (he'd turned in front of me earlier when I was waiting at lights) he was fairly visible, but far more immediately noticeable was the reflective strips of a pedestrians hiviz jacket on the opposite pavement.
purplepolly
New Member
- Location
- my house
User3143 said:
In my previous post, there were no cars about, my bike light was on the other side of the road and the very visible hi-viz pedestrian was on an unlit pavement. Yet the reflective strips were bright white. Some must be more efficient at picking up light than others.
hackbike 666
Guest
Ironically tonight I passed quite close to some ped lights and it shocked me that there were two peds there dressed in black who I hadn't seen till I was very close and it shocked me a bit.
Granted they weren't wearing lights though.
Also at Bow Church the cars stopped by a bus at a bus stop and I didn't know why so I waited with the cars and a ped bolted from the other side of the road to catch the bus.He was probably more visible than the two peds earlier though.He was wearing a sort of sheepskin jacket thingy.Good on the cars.
In my previous post, there were no cars about, my bike light was on the other side of the road and the very visible hi-viz pedestrian was on an unlit pavement. Yet the reflective strips were bright white. Some must be more efficient at picking up light than others.
I know what lee means about all this light source stuff but I see absolutely no harm in wearing hi-viz stuff if it turns me on.
Also on the railway it's a railway safety requirement to wear hi-viz stuff when walking on the track although it wasn't till about 1990.
Granted they weren't wearing lights though.
Also at Bow Church the cars stopped by a bus at a bus stop and I didn't know why so I waited with the cars and a ped bolted from the other side of the road to catch the bus.He was probably more visible than the two peds earlier though.He was wearing a sort of sheepskin jacket thingy.Good on the cars.
In my previous post, there were no cars about, my bike light was on the other side of the road and the very visible hi-viz pedestrian was on an unlit pavement. Yet the reflective strips were bright white. Some must be more efficient at picking up light than others.
I know what lee means about all this light source stuff but I see absolutely no harm in wearing hi-viz stuff if it turns me on.
Also on the railway it's a railway safety requirement to wear hi-viz stuff when walking on the track although it wasn't till about 1990.
I just don't see it as an either/or question, which is what it always seems to degenerate into.
To repeat, ALL road users have a social responsibility to improve road safety. In the case of cyclists and pedestrians, this means making themselves visible (whether by lights or clothing), and being aware of the difficulties of other road users travelling at much greater speeds.
In the case of motorists, it means being on constant guard for others, whether on many wheels or none.
If every road user took to the streets with a positive, helpful attitude, then this oft-rehearsed debate would not take place.
A.
To repeat, ALL road users have a social responsibility to improve road safety. In the case of cyclists and pedestrians, this means making themselves visible (whether by lights or clothing), and being aware of the difficulties of other road users travelling at much greater speeds.
In the case of motorists, it means being on constant guard for others, whether on many wheels or none.
If every road user took to the streets with a positive, helpful attitude, then this oft-rehearsed debate would not take place.
A.
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
Careful Hackers, or I'll tell you to stand on the naughty step!
More seriously, HiViz is one of those peculiar cultural things in the UK. If it's necessary here, why isn't it necessary in the Netherlands?
More seriously, HiViz is one of those peculiar cultural things in the UK. If it's necessary here, why isn't it necessary in the Netherlands?
HF2300
Insanity Prawn Boy
+1 for Allen's comment - though I'd add that motorists should also take care to be visible, and to be aware of cyclists' difficulties.
I'm really unconvinced by this argument. Certainly you can point to individual cases where high vis is poor, but perhaps it's been washed a million times, or is some nasty pound shop special.
Research into high vis in 'real life' situations consistently reports that visibility of wearers is increased by significant amounts. More importantly, it can change the distance at which someone is visible from less than a vehicle's braking distance to several times its braking distance.
Personally I also think visibility from the side is important, and front and rear lights often do little or nothing to help that.
Hmmm... Should we take that as an irrational outburst, or an inflammatory statement - or just as being deliberately controversial, perhaps with a bit of tongue in cheek?!
It seems to me that the difference between a lot of (the better) cycling high vis and PPE-type high vis is (obviously) that the cycling stuff is often designed specifically with cycling in mind, so it'll be made of waterproof breathable fabrics, have windproof fronts, etc. etc. Things like Police jackets are often hot when active because they're not breathable. If you've already got a decent top layer I can't see a problem with using one of the thin vest / waistcoat / over-jacket type things (though some of the snobs on here will say it makes you look like a POB!).
Having said that, there's also the cyclists' mark-up; I've seen cycling high vis vests on sale at £12 - £15 which are identical or worse than ones from industrial suppliers at £2.99.
If you do go for an industrial type vest / overjacket or similar, I'd always get something that complies with BS EN 471, preferably Class 3. There are several different standards out there for professional vs. non-professional wear, and a lot of the pound shop type stuff doesn't comply with any of them anyway!
Mikey, I've been meaning to ask, what's the source of the 'urban camouflage' quote you had as your sig?
BentMikey said:
BentMikey said:
I'm really unconvinced by this argument. Certainly you can point to individual cases where high vis is poor, but perhaps it's been washed a million times, or is some nasty pound shop special.
Research into high vis in 'real life' situations consistently reports that visibility of wearers is increased by significant amounts. More importantly, it can change the distance at which someone is visible from less than a vehicle's braking distance to several times its braking distance.
Personally I also think visibility from the side is important, and front and rear lights often do little or nothing to help that.
BentMikey said:
Hmmm... Should we take that as an irrational outburst, or an inflammatory statement - or just as being deliberately controversial, perhaps with a bit of tongue in cheek?!
It seems to me that the difference between a lot of (the better) cycling high vis and PPE-type high vis is (obviously) that the cycling stuff is often designed specifically with cycling in mind, so it'll be made of waterproof breathable fabrics, have windproof fronts, etc. etc. Things like Police jackets are often hot when active because they're not breathable. If you've already got a decent top layer I can't see a problem with using one of the thin vest / waistcoat / over-jacket type things (though some of the snobs on here will say it makes you look like a POB!).
Having said that, there's also the cyclists' mark-up; I've seen cycling high vis vests on sale at £12 - £15 which are identical or worse than ones from industrial suppliers at £2.99.
If you do go for an industrial type vest / overjacket or similar, I'd always get something that complies with BS EN 471, preferably Class 3. There are several different standards out there for professional vs. non-professional wear, and a lot of the pound shop type stuff doesn't comply with any of them anyway!
Mikey, I've been meaning to ask, what's the source of the 'urban camouflage' quote you had as your sig?
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
Oh come on HF2300 - do you really mean to suggest that at night Hiviz is better than decent lights?
There's no way hiviz can possibly perform as well as lights at night, because it's passive, and it doesn't always work - eg the fluo doesn't work at night, and the reflectives won't in a side-road example. Any time visibility is reduced, our lights should be on as per the highway code. Given that only the reflectives are useful at night, then the on-bike reflectors are plenty. Lights are much more effective, and if your lights have no side-on visibility, that's a failing you should be fixing asap. OTOH I don't think side-on visibility plays much part in collision prevention, at least nothing by comparison with most collision types.
Hiviz in the daytime - if visibility is good, then it's easy to see a cyclist. You don't need hiviz to be visible. It might add visibility, but when that's unnecessary visibility, there's no effect on your safety.
There's no way hiviz can possibly perform as well as lights at night, because it's passive, and it doesn't always work - eg the fluo doesn't work at night, and the reflectives won't in a side-road example. Any time visibility is reduced, our lights should be on as per the highway code. Given that only the reflectives are useful at night, then the on-bike reflectors are plenty. Lights are much more effective, and if your lights have no side-on visibility, that's a failing you should be fixing asap. OTOH I don't think side-on visibility plays much part in collision prevention, at least nothing by comparison with most collision types.
Hiviz in the daytime - if visibility is good, then it's easy to see a cyclist. You don't need hiviz to be visible. It might add visibility, but when that's unnecessary visibility, there's no effect on your safety.