Holding cars up...

[Mugshot]

Mugshot, I'm not trying to be obtuse deliberately, it's a turn of phrase which I didn't think was particularly unclear. It refers simply to cyclists asserting their right to be seen as equals on the road, nothing more, nothing less.

I'm certainly not trying to deliberately misunderstand you, nor try to draw you into an argument for that matter. Maybe I'm being particularly stupid, but I honestly don't understand what you're saying about the heat being turned up and it leading to somewhere. My best guess from your post above is that the cyclists are turning up the heat on motorists by filming them.

 

[Norm]

Have you experienced a change in attitude from either cyclists or motorists as a result of this?

I have certainly had very negative comments about cyclists filming inconsequential incidents and YouTubing them with accompanying emotional hyperbole. This was around the same time that the cyclecammers hit the news earlier this year, as well as seeing many comments on social media sites.

So yes, I have seen a change in attitudes.

 

[Mugshot]

I have certainly had very negative comments about cyclists filming inconsequential incidents and YouTubing them with accompanying emotional hyperbole.

Is this from co-workers and family, how have you responded to the negativity?

 

[Norm]

Towards helmet cam cyclists who put trivial incidents up, helmet cam cyclists in general, the idea of helmet cam cyclists, or all cyclists?

I think I covered that with " filming inconsequential incidents and YouTubing them with accompanying emotional hyperbole"

Is this from co-workers and family, how have you responded to the negativity?

The direct comments were from colleagues and the response was along the lines of "Don't drive like a ****wit and you've got little to worry about"

 

[Mugshot]

The direct comments were from colleagues and the response was along the lines of "Don't drive like a ****wit and you've got little to worry about"

Well that's about as direct an answer as I could wish for, thank you

 

[Crackle]

I'm certainly not trying to deliberately misunderstand you, nor try to draw you into an argument for that matter. Maybe I'm being particularly stupid, but I honestly don't understand what you're saying about the heat being turned up and it leading to somewhere. My best guess from your post above is that the cyclists are turning up the heat on motorists by filming them.

Sorry, I allowed myself to be further drawn into this thread than I intended. But having done so I suppose the only real way to extricate myself is to try and offer a fuller explanation.

I think as cyclists we've some way to go before we are treated with equality on the roads. You see this not just in motorists attitudes but differing attitudes of police, councils and various official bodies. At the moment, cycling seems to have a momentum which is greater than I've seen in the 30 years I've been cycling, enough, in fact, to make a difference, that is the 'where this ends up bit' I'm referring to. Will things actually have enough momentum to change attitudes and get us towards that equality.

To do that we really have to change driver attitudes and this is where helmetcams play their part. The problem I see with them is not people having them but the posting of the clips into the public domain. As FM says, this, I feel, increases frustration with cyclists and breeds resentment, this is the heat I refer to and which I think still has some way to go as a rise in awareness of helmetcams increases or as more people adopt helmetcams. Ergo, the likelihood increases that a frustrated motorist passes that frustration on to another cyclist. Of course that could be poppycock or paranoia as Adrian called it, I could just simply be wrong or I could be right but we still get a positive outcome from it, I simply have my doubts and that's before we even get into the nitty gritty of whether posted clips actually show us bad driving or bad cycling.

Now I hope that answers your question, as for some reason it took an inordinate amount of time to clarify my thoughts tonight: Must be more careful with loose phrases in future.

 

[Mugshot]

Now I hope that answers your question, as for some reason it took an inordinate amount of time to clarify my thoughts tonight: Must be more careful with loose phrases in future.

It does indeed, thank you

 

[dellzeqq]

I have certainly had very negative comments about cyclists filming inconsequential incidents and YouTubing them with accompanying emotional hyperbole. This was around the same time that the cyclecammers hit the news earlier this year, as well as seeing many comments on social media sites.

So yes, I have seen a change in attitudes.

the question is this - does it change their driving? Speed cameras excite all kinds of antipathy, up to and including vandalism. The Mail tells us that they are part of a 'war on motorists'. But.........speeds on camera'd roads decline. And speeding is less acceptable. I accept that people still speed and that there's a great deal of hypocrisy on this subject, but I believe that, generally, people are beginning to behave a little better because the argument has been 'taken to them' by the speed camera

There's an interesting variant on this. Villagers measuring speeds through their high streets. Nobody gets upset about it, other than the police who fear a confrontation - and it does reduce speeds for a while. Now the DfT is, apparently, going to devolve speed limits to highways authorities to allow more flexibility. My suspicion is that this will reduce more speed limits than it will increase. We'll have a popularly sanctioned improvement in driving.

I don't have a camera, but I do find that it is possible to get drivers to modify their behaviour, and for the better.

 

[Norm]

the question is this - does it change their driving?

The question was actually about whether it changed their attitudes.

I agree that speeding is becoming more unacceptable but I suggest that speeding and speed cameras are not particularly relevant points when considering helmet cams.

There is a perception that there are fewer traffic police, with the "jam / honey sandwiches" having been replaced by speed cameras and Traffic Wombles. There have also been comments that fewer traffic police has led to a drop in driving standards.

The only things that speed cameras catch is speeding and they are completely useless for spotting, amongst other things, SMIDSYs, close passes and tailgating.

Cyclecams, however, are pretty good at capturing, amongst other things, SMIDSYs, close passes and tailgating, although they are un-calibrated so completely useless at capturing speeding.

I agree, then, that these cameras change their driving as well as their attitudes, although I don't agree with the idea of a High Court of YouTube and wish that there were some easier way of pursuing due process through the legal system.

 

[Mugshot]

With the increase in helmet cameras I assume, as with this thread and plenty of others on this forum, there has been an increase in the amount of debate amongst cyclists with regards to roadcraft, maybe leading to a more assertive cycling community.
If you are seeing a change in attitude and driving, could this be due to superior roadcraft from the cyclists rather than a concern that they may be filmed from the motorist?

 

[lukesdad]

With the increase in helmet cameras I assume, as with this thread and plenty of others on this forum, there has been an increase in the amount of debate amongst cyclists with regards to roadcraft, maybe leading to a more assertive cycling community.
If you are seeing a change in attitude and driving, could this be due to superior roadcraft from the cyclists rather than a concern that they may be filmed from the motorist?

Or it could be of course the increase of cyclists motorists are encountering.

 

[Brahan]

doog + brahan = oxygen thieves.

Well done on the fabulous comment there.

 

[Mugshot]

Or it could be of course the increase of cyclists motorists are encountering.

Indeed, but new cyclists need to learn their roadcraft from somewhere or else they will be gutter huggers. I was that gutter hugger until watching videos and reading forums, it showed me the error of my ways. As a gutter hugger I was doing little to change any motorists attitude or driving, I think now, maybe, I am.

 

[doog]

Wasnt nice was it Brahan ? Dont expect anything approaching an apology either.
Back to the current subject of driver improvement due to headcams.

My view is that we will actually see a rise in hostility towards cyclists in the shape of poorer driving as a result (almost obstructive) . The public on the whole can accept that we live in a society dominated by CCTV etc, what they hate is the 'personal' infringement of what they consider to be their private life by another member of the public, rather than an organisation council or shops etc.

So pointing a camera in someone's face or car and telling them to look on youtube will only result in an increase in confrontation ( just like in this vid from OP where the driver leaps from his vehicle at the mention of this threat.)

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

I wonder how us cyclists would feel if motorists started routinely filming us and confronting us at junctions over what they perceive to be bad cycling?

 

[gaz]

I wonder how us cyclists would feel if motorists started routinely filming us and confronting us at junctions over what they perceive to be bad cycling?

I wouldn't care. I think i'm a relatively good cyclist who makes clear signals and is courteous to other road users.