FishFright
More wheels than sense
I do sometimes give money to the more friendly smack heads because they will be getting money for that fix anyway and begging causes the lowest harm.
Homeless people help?
- Thread starter Milzy
- Start date
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I do sometimes give money to the more friendly smack heads because they will be getting money for that fix anyway and begging causes the lowest harm.
Electric_Andy
Heavy Metal Fan
- Location
- Plymouth
I'm not judging here, but how did he become/remain homeless? I understand some people have issues with addictions and can't be helped, but was it not possible to help him out with money or putting him up at your place?
There was an article a while ago about a mother who was urging people not to help her homeless son (who was a drug addict), as any help given would just keep him on the streets still using drugs. Was it that type of scenario?
D
Deleted member 26715
Guest
I'm not sure it would be helpful to know these details of what must be a very difficult situation for @BoldonLad
Electric_Andy
Heavy Metal Fan
- Location
- Plymouth
Fair enough
Accy cyclist
Legendary Member
- Location
- The hills of Accrington
Yeah,i know what you mean. Last night i gave three stand chairs to a neighbour. I promised them to her a while ago and let her have them as soon as i'd got a replacement. Her parting shot was to ask me if i had 4 quid to spare as well.For 20p i want a bit more than singing and bloody dancing i can tell you !
The problem here is the people that are asking for money are not homeless , they are just lazy gambling piss heads and junkies that live on the council estate . How do i know , because ive lived here for 20 years .
She's not a bad person,but she's getting a name for herself by constantly tapping people up for money. Maybe i could've given her the 4 quid but that would've probably made her think i was a soft touch and she'd just come back for more.
D
Deleted member 26715
Guest
Sorry I didn't mean to be judgmental but I can't imagine what I would feel if it were my son living on the street, I'm not sure sharing here will help.
GrumpyGregry
Here for rides.
A very long time ago I was homeless for a few weeks. One of the worst experiences of my life. Maybe it colours my judgement.
In order to determine if I should give to a beggar or not I have to make a judgement about them. I prefer not to do that. My default is to give. So I give to beggars, I gift them some spare change and acknowledge their existence. Sweden crystallised my pov; even if someone is a "professional beggar" and not homeless, as I was told over and over ("how do you know?") but they are prepared to sit on the streets all day in winter at -20, they've earned a couple of crowns from me. Nothing that I saw in Vancouver (which has homelessness and street begging and substance/opioid dependency on a scale that would make UK inner-city dwellers blanch at that the scale) changed my mind. But it did cost me a small fortune in change. Lols.
Once I've given someone a gift I have no say in what the recipient does with it. Otherwise it isn't a gift. So I pay my "tramp tax", as it is known at Chez Collins, and hang the consequences.
Ah, but what about the systemic problems, how are you helping them to help themselves, et cetera, et cetera? I gift money to various charities in this space too. But how do you know the charity doesn't waste it? I DON'T CARE. It is a gift.
Point is if you are minded to gift, gift. And make it a genuine gift. If you are not minded to gift, but want to judge or attach strings and conditions to your donation, fine, but don't knock those that gift.
queue multiple comments re virtue signalling. do one.
In order to determine if I should give to a beggar or not I have to make a judgement about them. I prefer not to do that. My default is to give. So I give to beggars, I gift them some spare change and acknowledge their existence. Sweden crystallised my pov; even if someone is a "professional beggar" and not homeless, as I was told over and over ("how do you know?") but they are prepared to sit on the streets all day in winter at -20, they've earned a couple of crowns from me. Nothing that I saw in Vancouver (which has homelessness and street begging and substance/opioid dependency on a scale that would make UK inner-city dwellers blanch at that the scale) changed my mind. But it did cost me a small fortune in change. Lols.
Once I've given someone a gift I have no say in what the recipient does with it. Otherwise it isn't a gift. So I pay my "tramp tax", as it is known at Chez Collins, and hang the consequences.
Ah, but what about the systemic problems, how are you helping them to help themselves, et cetera, et cetera? I gift money to various charities in this space too. But how do you know the charity doesn't waste it? I DON'T CARE. It is a gift.
Point is if you are minded to gift, gift. And make it a genuine gift. If you are not minded to gift, but want to judge or attach strings and conditions to your donation, fine, but don't knock those that gift.
queue multiple comments re virtue signalling. do one.
Globalti
Legendary Member
The same bloke who makes a noise with a tin whistle has squatted with his dog outside the Millgate mall in Bury for as long as I can remember, probably ten years. I find it hard to believe he hasn't been able to find a job, or a place to live or claim benefits in all that time.
My son had his feelings of altruism knocked out of him when he bought a Mars bar with his pocket money and gave it to a bloke who always sat opposite Manchester cathedral. As he handed it over the bloke snatched it without a word, jumped up, rushed over to a blacked-out Range Rover that had pulled up and jumped into the back seat shouting: "Where have you fookin' been? I've been waiting ages!"
My son had his feelings of altruism knocked out of him when he bought a Mars bar with his pocket money and gave it to a bloke who always sat opposite Manchester cathedral. As he handed it over the bloke snatched it without a word, jumped up, rushed over to a blacked-out Range Rover that had pulled up and jumped into the back seat shouting: "Where have you fookin' been? I've been waiting ages!"
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BoldonLad
Not part of the Elite
- Location
- South Tyneside
OK. I accept, you are not judging, so, I will answer and TRY not to become annoyed.
You need to understand, this has been going on since he was 18, he is now 43 (44 this year), so, my memory of when and how long is not perfect.
My son first became homeless, at age 18, when, although I was giving him the money for his rent (at that time he lived approximately 100 miles from me), he was spending the money on other things, his landlord evicted him.
Initially, he refused to move, the area where I lived, but, eventually, he did "move", and lived at with me for several months. During this period he failed to look for work/ training/education. He spent his days in bed, and his nights (ie say 20:00 - 04:00) "out" doing goodness knows what. He received benefits, I do not know how much. He contributed nothing to the household, except a pile of dirty washing. As I think you may imagine, this did lead to some household friction.
Eventually, it was agreed he would move into his "own" place. I gave him every assistance to do this, including paying bond, first months rent (until housing benefit kicked in), etc. After about six months of abusing the accommodation (ie not clearing rubbish, not cleaning kitchen, etc etc, he was evicted. A period of being "homeless" ensued, ie, either sleeping on a friends floor, or, a shop doorway, or, sometimes a hostel. This cycle continued several times over the next few years, until he was aged about 32. I was interspersed with a spell in prison for possession of a significant amount of "weed". (I do not know how much, he said that it belonged to a "friend").
After he emerged from prison, I found him "bed and breakfast" accommodation, in a pub. The landlady of the pub was a no nonsense character, this resulted in a period of relative "normality", which lasted for about 12 months. Housing benefit paid his rent, he had benefit money and "earned" a bit "cash in hand" doing odd jobs, running errands etc. This halcyon spell came to an end when he allowed some of his shady "friends" onto the premises, out of hours. Let us just say, unacceptable things happened. The Landlady did not turf him out on the first occasion, but, by the third time, she had had enough and he was given his marching orders.
Another spell of 6-12 months "homeless, and sofa surfing".
Somehow, goodness knows how, during this period, he met a "girlfriend". More resources and attending meetings with local authority housing department, on my part, with my son and partner also in attendance, and they were allocated a council flat.
This was almost a "success" it lasted for about four years, before they were evicted (yes, none payment of rent and council tax), with arrears of approximately £1500.
Another period of "sofa surfing", followed by another Council Flat (single), evicted again after about two years, yes, you guessed it, none payment of rent.
At present, he is living in a very shoddy (private) flat, with another partner, rent paid via housing benefit etc. So far, this latest "round" has lasted for 8 months.
He is 43, his partner is 44. Neither of them have worked a day in their lives.
Forgive me, but, I am not optimistic.
If only it were so easy as throwing some money and few bags of groceries at the problem!
BoldonLad
Not part of the Elite
- Location
- South Tyneside
Thank you for your consideration.
I have answered briefly, you are right, it is not very easy, but, I thought it worth while to show that a little bit more than a few bags of food and a hand full of cash is needed here.
D
Deleted member 26715
Guest
I have 'liked' this post rather than the one about your son, as said I cannot comprehend what you have gone through, your children are always your children no matter what they have done or how old they are. My son is currently in New Zealand, deciding whether to stay or come back, as much as we want him to come back, there is more for him there.
Edit:- I should have also said, Thank you for sharing, it could not have been easy, I'm welling up here & not involved.
BoldonLad
Not part of the Elite
- Location
- South Tyneside
Don't be too kind to me, I did it mainly to show that the "give them more" brigade really do not have the first idea. I do wish I knew what the solution is, but, after 27 year years of dealing with 'the problem", plus a bit of time as a volunteer in this area, I have to admit, I don't!
roadrash
cycle chatterer
- Location
- sitting on the edge of wigan pier
@User46386 even if this is true.. Lots of street beggars are not even homeless, and I don't doubt it in some cases, how do you personally make that judgement, may I refer you to @GrumpyGregry post at the top of the page.
Pro Tour Punditry
Guru
There is a difference between homeless and living on the streets
U
User32269
Guest
That is a lie. Exactly the same as people who used to tell me that all asylum seekers got a big house, a car, and a mobile phone given to them.
I worked in the homeless sector for years. In the most affluent of areas around central London, the people who used to go out begging all day would get between £10 and, the ones who were good at it or hit lucky, £40.
Of course it was mostly to fund drug and alcohol habits, but begging is better than stealing.
