How long in primary position?

[alp1950]

The A807 Balmore Road, the first two miles of my commute is horrible at peak times. A relatively narrow rural road that is very busy with commuter traffic & school buses going in both directions so that traffic behind has very little opportunity to get past. http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/commute-route-1226032

Cycling in secondary position regularly leads to too close overtakes and particularly frightening cut-ins by HGVs. No cycle path or alternative routes. I suppose I could use the adjoining footpath- illegal of course and impractical through the village.

So adopt primary position- but for how long? Cycling in primary for two miles is liable to lead to a lot of very angry drivers as I suspect the overtaking skills of the average driver are so poor that many would be unable to get past. In theory, I suppose it shouldn't matter to the overtaking driver whether I'm in primary or secondary as they still only have a limited time to get past (basically the road is that narrow they shouldn't IMO try to get past at the same time that a car is coming in the opposite direction). They can usually get by when you're in secondary though.

So what I sometimes try to do is to adopt a primary position when I really do not want to be passed, but move over into secondary when it seems safe for the motorist to pass. The difficulty is that a stack of motorists then take the opportunity to get by making it well nigh impossible to get back into primary, inevitably leading to the too close overtake as one cyclist and two cars try to occupy the same space-time coordinates.

Thoughts/suggestions appreciated.

 

[janm399]

If I were in your situation, I'd hold primary, but I'd look for places where I could move in and allow the cars behind me to overtake. This will probably make the drivers understand that you're not "in their way", but that you're trying to stay safe. To stop the stream of overtaking traffic will not stop, stick out your left hand facing the cars behind, this usually gives the right message.

 

[zimzum42]

I switch to doggy after five minutes

 

[alp1950]

If I were in your situation, I'd hold primary, but I'd look for places where I could move in and allow the cars behind me to overtake. This will probably make the drivers understand that you're not "in their way", but that you're trying to stay safe. To stop the stream of overtaking traffic will not stop, stick out your left hand facing the cars behind, this usually gives the right message.

?left hand

 

[BentMikey]

I think he means right hand, at least that's what I would use. Otherwise, I'm with Jan's approach. Not so pleasant, that situation.

 

[janm399]

?left hand

Of course I mean right hand . 23 years of living on the continent and riding on the right leaves its mark.

 

[spandex]

The A807 Balmore Road, the first two miles of my commute is horrible at peak times. A relatively narrow rural road that is very busy with commuter traffic & school buses going in both directions so that traffic behind has very little opportunity to get past. http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/commute-route-1226032

Cycling in secondary position regularly leads to too close overtakes and particularly frightening cut-ins by HGVs. No cycle path or alternative routes. I suppose I could use the adjoining footpath- illegal of course and impractical through the village.

So adopt primary position- but for how long? Cycling in primary for two miles is liable to lead to a lot of very angry drivers as I suspect the overtaking skills of the average driver are so poor that many would be unable to get past. In theory, I suppose it shouldn't matter to the overtaking driver whether I'm in primary or secondary as they still only have a limited time to get past (basically the road is that narrow they shouldn't IMO try to get past at the same time that a car is coming in the opposite direction). They can usually get by when you're in secondary though.

So what I sometimes try to do is to adopt a primary position when I really do not want to be passed, but move over into secondary when it seems safe for the motorist to pass. The difficulty is that a stack of motorists then take the opportunity to get by making it well nigh impossible to get back into primary, inevitably leading to the too close overtake as one cyclist and two cars try to occupy the same space-time coordinates.

Thoughts/suggestions appreciated.

So you have to chose ride in a primary position and try and be safe Or ride in secondary position and have all most no chance of saving your self if some one dose come to close! Why are you thinking about it because you do not wish to piss off car drivers IT is your life we are talking about. I wish every car driver was pissed off if it meant you keeping your life!

Primary is the best chance we have to stay safe on the roads.

 

[BentMikey]

If you make a habit of pulling in to let drivers past, you'll soon accumulate a large amount of goodwill from the regular drivers on your commute. That won't stop the odd irritated driver, but should ease the stress considerably.

 

[rnscotch]

You are a brave man cycling along through balmore, I used to go that way from cumbernauld to bearsden to say it is crazy is an understatement i ended up valuing my life more ,so changed my route.

 

[ultraviolet]

i'm sorry, what are the primary and secondary positions?

 

[DJ]

Primary is out in the middle of the road near the white lines and secondary is in the gutter or near the parked cars!

My advise would be to look for an alternative route, one which even if it was longer would be safer!

 

[spandex]

Primary is out in the middle of the road near the white lines and secondary is in the gutter or near the parked cars!

My advise would be to look for an alternative route, one which even if it was longer would be safer!

Primary dose not have to be so far out all that is needed is just 3 feet from the curb. That is where I ride and most cars have to wate for a gap to go past.

 

[spandex]

I've never read ''cyclecraft'' so I don't know what the textbook definition of ''primary'' is.

I have always taken it to be from my POV when I'm out on my bike to be in a position where you have your own little bit of road, and should the shoot hit the fan with any cars behind overtaking that you have space to go into.

I think it's finding that balance between a safe riding position and not hindering the traffic behind you when there is no need to .

Spot on

 

[alp1950]

I've never read ''cyclecraft'' so I don't know what the textbook definition of ''primary'' is.

I have always taken it to be from my POV when I'm out on my bike to be in a position where you have your own little bit of road, and should the shoot hit the fan with any cars behind overtaking that you have space to go into.

I think it's finding that balance between a safe riding position and not hindering the traffic behind you when there is no need to.

Agreed but doesn't it also imply taking a position which will prevent/discourage foolhardy overtakes which drivers might try to squeeze in if you were in secondary.

 

[Lazy-Commuter]

Agreed but doesn't it also imply taking a position which will prevent/discourage foolhardy overtakes which drivers might try to squeeze in if you were in secondary.

Is what I thought. I've not got an exact definition - I'm sure someone will have soon - but this is my example ..

there's a pair of mini roundabouts on my way to work, approx 100 yards apart. The way I approach them on the way to work, the first one has straight over and left turn options, the second one straight over and right turn. I want to go straight over the first and right at the second.

Until I get near to the approach to the first one, I'm in secondary which to me is 2-3 feet away from the kerb, kind of where a car's left hand wheels would be. As I approach the first roundabout, there's islands and things and I don't want cars overtaking me on the way in to the roundabout anyway so I will check behind, signal if needed* and move out to the middle of the lane. If something had been catching me up from a while back I'd tend to slow down and let them pass a way before I get near the roundabout so as to be able to move out more easily / safely a bit later.

As I leave the roundabout, I do another check over my shoulder, signal again and go right out to near to the white line, holding the signal for a time so everyone can see I'm going to go right.

Bearing in mind this is on a housing estate and I'm typically doing 20+mph at this point, I don't really have much hassle with cars. It helps that there's not much traffic and what little there is usually goes left at the first roundabout.

I usually acknowledge the ones that wait for me and as I do it at about the same time every day I think most people are used to me being there and it's all very civilised.

* The idea being to let anyone who's a way behind - but hadn't been close enough for me to let them pass - that I'm here and I'm going to move over so if they're dithering about whether to overtake or not I'm making their mind up for them. If they looked like a nutter, I'd probably let them pass. But that's not arisen yet.