hackbike 6
New Member
- Location
- The Mile End Road.
User3143 said:
Sorry but it does.
How long in primary position?
- Thread starter alp1950
- Start date
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Sorry but it does.
Sometimes I think drivers like you to make the decision for them, if left with a dicey overtake when a cyclist is in secondary they feel duty bound to take it, if you are in Primary they will tend to accept it and realise they will have to wait, or least most will, Alpha males in Silver German cars notwithstanding.
That said, I sometimes drive and I would get mightily peed off sat for eight minutes behind a cyclist doing 15 mph, I wouldnt do anything rash but I would be sat there, annoyed and wonder why the cyclist is hogging the entire lane, if it were necessary due to parked cars etc then not an issue but I have seen unrepentant Primary cyclists and they are annoying, like getting stuck behind a dawdler in a car, one of those who is either unaware of the queue behind him or is making a point.
So, ride Primary when your safety is based on doing so, otherwise ride secondary (not right in the gutter), make plenty of opportunities for drivers to get past and make the odd gesture of thanks, I find it can even placate a German car driver as you are acknowledging their patience and improving their view of cyclists so the next one they come across may get treated better.
I find a bar end mirrror is invaluable, I wouldnt ride without one now, saves looking over the should ehen you want to know whats hoving into view behind you without the turning round, its much quicker, as long, of course that you remember to look around for making a maneuver or for reminding those behind that its a bloke on the bike, not just a hi viz jacket.
I think sometimes looking a bit "official" helps as they arent sure if you are a PCSO or something, or at least looking like you arent totally out of your depth.
That said, I sometimes drive and I would get mightily peed off sat for eight minutes behind a cyclist doing 15 mph, I wouldnt do anything rash but I would be sat there, annoyed and wonder why the cyclist is hogging the entire lane, if it were necessary due to parked cars etc then not an issue but I have seen unrepentant Primary cyclists and they are annoying, like getting stuck behind a dawdler in a car, one of those who is either unaware of the queue behind him or is making a point.
So, ride Primary when your safety is based on doing so, otherwise ride secondary (not right in the gutter), make plenty of opportunities for drivers to get past and make the odd gesture of thanks, I find it can even placate a German car driver as you are acknowledging their patience and improving their view of cyclists so the next one they come across may get treated better.
I find a bar end mirrror is invaluable, I wouldnt ride without one now, saves looking over the should ehen you want to know whats hoving into view behind you without the turning round, its much quicker, as long, of course that you remember to look around for making a maneuver or for reminding those behind that its a bloke on the bike, not just a hi viz jacket.
I think sometimes looking a bit "official" helps as they arent sure if you are a PCSO or something, or at least looking like you arent totally out of your depth.
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
Firstly here's a hug! Secondly I think you take it a bit too seriously, and possibly personally. I don't think any is meant in a patronising way. It's a lot about helping people and being helped by people, so you shouldn't be taking any strain from the comments.
hackbike 6
New Member
- Location
- The Mile End Road.
Sorry alp been posting on here well over a year and it's the same basic stuff.I wont say anything more I've said my thing (yet again)
Psychos may be uncommon, but there is a lot of careless, selfish and downright stupid driving out there.
Agreed it's a couldn't care less attitude.What is wrong with the people in this country,peoples attitudes towards other people?
Everywhere I go away to the attitude seems to be different.I know obviously this doesn't apply to every country in the world.
Also that applies to motorists attitudes out there.I have found the driving much better,hectic and tolerant.
Oh btw I hope I didn't ruin your thread.
Psychos may be uncommon, but there is a lot of careless, selfish and downright stupid driving out there.
Agreed it's a couldn't care less attitude.What is wrong with the people in this country,peoples attitudes towards other people?
Everywhere I go away to the attitude seems to be different.I know obviously this doesn't apply to every country in the world.
Also that applies to motorists attitudes out there.I have found the driving much better,hectic and tolerant.
Oh btw I hope I didn't ruin your thread.
Highway Code, General rule for ALL roadusers No. 160.
"keep to the left, unless road signs or markings indicate otherwise. The exceptions are when you want to overtake, turn right or pass parked vehicles or pedestrians in the road."
If it is possible for another cyclist to pass you on the kerbside, you are too far across the road and causing an obstruction. A police officer could stop you and charge you with 'Reckless cycling' or 'Riding a pedal cycle without due care'.
Slow moving vehicles, THAT IS US!, are required to move aside if three or more vehicles are being delayed.
My own interpretation of Rule 160 is - I ride in a position where it is not possible to be passed on the kerbside - 1 yard out.
Also, Highway Code 'Overtaking'
"168
Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you.
169
Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass. "
"keep to the left, unless road signs or markings indicate otherwise. The exceptions are when you want to overtake, turn right or pass parked vehicles or pedestrians in the road."
If it is possible for another cyclist to pass you on the kerbside, you are too far across the road and causing an obstruction. A police officer could stop you and charge you with 'Reckless cycling' or 'Riding a pedal cycle without due care'.
Slow moving vehicles, THAT IS US!, are required to move aside if three or more vehicles are being delayed.
My own interpretation of Rule 160 is - I ride in a position where it is not possible to be passed on the kerbside - 1 yard out.
Also, Highway Code 'Overtaking'
"168
Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you.
169
Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass. "
hackbike 6
New Member
- Location
- The Mile End Road.
Reading that,I don't think I do too much wrong.Hopefully.
169
Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass. "
Aye that's what I do.
169
Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass. "
Aye that's what I do.
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
What are you trying to suggest, Jimbo?
hackbike 6
New Member
- Location
- The Mile End Road.
Hmmm I was doing something wrong in Bangkok had to be careful of motorcyclists undertaking me.
My suggestion is :- Riding in 'Primary' ( why its called this I do not know ) position is only for passing other road users and obstructions. Parked vehicles are obstuctions, so there's no conflict there.
I only use the 'crown of the road' when the traffic is rolling at the speed I can ride or there are parked vehicles. When traffic speeds up and on 'clear kerb', I move to my 1 yard position.
In my 1 yard position, I am a 'slow moving vehicle' and observe the HC by "getting out of the bastard's way" before he hits me.
There is merit in holding a confident stance if letting the moron overtake would be dangerous.
I've been a cycle commuter for twenty years and I can 'mix it' with the motorists. After a few years, one becomes 'street savvy' and listening to a motorist's gear change technique will give away his intentions. If there is a particularly frequent gear-changer following, I stop and let him pass.
A car's braking characteristic can tell a lot too, so can its signal time ( if any ).
I re-read OP's initial post. I would ride the same. I thought it may be useful to look at it from PC Plod's veiwpoint, and I would say that on a narrow road with parked cars, anyone would expect a cyclist to ride OUTSIDE the doorswing of the parked vehicles.
I only use the 'crown of the road' when the traffic is rolling at the speed I can ride or there are parked vehicles. When traffic speeds up and on 'clear kerb', I move to my 1 yard position.
In my 1 yard position, I am a 'slow moving vehicle' and observe the HC by "getting out of the bastard's way" before he hits me.
There is merit in holding a confident stance if letting the moron overtake would be dangerous.
I've been a cycle commuter for twenty years and I can 'mix it' with the motorists. After a few years, one becomes 'street savvy' and listening to a motorist's gear change technique will give away his intentions. If there is a particularly frequent gear-changer following, I stop and let him pass.
A car's braking characteristic can tell a lot too, so can its signal time ( if any ).
I re-read OP's initial post. I would ride the same. I thought it may be useful to look at it from PC Plod's veiwpoint, and I would say that on a narrow road with parked cars, anyone would expect a cyclist to ride OUTSIDE the doorswing of the parked vehicles.
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
OK, that's not anything different to what the pro-primary people have been suggesting on here. Your post just slightly came across like you were utterly slating primary as a bad and illegal practrice.
Hmmmm....
There is 'best practice' advice in the HC. PC Plod will be biased toward it.
IMHO, every situation requires a different approach, but I will try not to make a nuisance of myself by taking 'primary'.
My personal translation of the HC is that 1 yard out is 'Primary' and using the crown of the road is a secondary route to avoid danger.
I am not aiming to open a rat's nest. The HC is the document that the Law enforcers refer to.
An argument has frequently arisen at Solihull CC about riding two abreast on busy streets.
IMO, 'Not good form', in agreement with the HC. There is no argument club riders in a group get hostilities from motorists.
If a single rider takes the position of outboard on a two abreast format, he will recieve hostilities if the motorist considers him 'obstructing'.
It always is best to know the law and have it at hand ( or in head ) when a motorist stops to argue. I've got the tee shirt. The motorist got a Periorbital Edema
There is 'best practice' advice in the HC. PC Plod will be biased toward it.
IMHO, every situation requires a different approach, but I will try not to make a nuisance of myself by taking 'primary'.
My personal translation of the HC is that 1 yard out is 'Primary' and using the crown of the road is a secondary route to avoid danger.
I am not aiming to open a rat's nest. The HC is the document that the Law enforcers refer to.
An argument has frequently arisen at Solihull CC about riding two abreast on busy streets.
IMO, 'Not good form', in agreement with the HC. There is no argument club riders in a group get hostilities from motorists.
If a single rider takes the position of outboard on a two abreast format, he will recieve hostilities if the motorist considers him 'obstructing'.
It always is best to know the law and have it at hand ( or in head ) when a motorist stops to argue. I've got the tee shirt. The motorist got a Periorbital Edema
Nigeyy
Legendary Member
- Location
- Massachusetts, USA
Sorry, but I think UK is one of the better countries when it comes to driving -not that it makes it wonderful by any stretch of the imagination. I think you're falling into the trap of going somewhere and just thinking its better -most likely because you're on holiday and in a good mood (vacation mode they call it here), and probably in an area that doesn't attract bad driving (i.e. not in the hustle and bustle of a large city at commuting times, etc). Watch out Hackers, you'll be reading the Daily Mail next!!!!
Useless anecdote time: when I left the UK back in 1990, I remember reading a newspaper article (most likely from the Daily Mail I'll bet too!) that stated that educational standards for UK kids in maths and science was the worst in the industrialized nations. A couple of months later, I was reading a similar article in the Boston Herald (a newspaper best avoided unless you run out of toilet paper and one that makes the Daily Mail look positively sensible and like a leftward leaning socialist workers daily) stating that educational standards for US kids in maths and science was the worst in the industrialized nations......
I think the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
Useless anecdote time: when I left the UK back in 1990, I remember reading a newspaper article (most likely from the Daily Mail I'll bet too!) that stated that educational standards for UK kids in maths and science was the worst in the industrialized nations. A couple of months later, I was reading a similar article in the Boston Herald (a newspaper best avoided unless you run out of toilet paper and one that makes the Daily Mail look positively sensible and like a leftward leaning socialist workers daily) stating that educational standards for US kids in maths and science was the worst in the industrialized nations......
I think the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
hackbike 6 said:
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
Jimbo, primary is not in the Highway code, it's a best cycling practices thing. 1yard out would be secondary position for the average road, though it's defined by the flow of traffic, and not by lanes or curbs. There's not really much in teh HC at all about cycling, not to the level of detail there is for motor vehicles, and it does rather look like you're reading far too much into the "get out the way of motor vehicle" bits.
When Cyclecraft is widely acknowledged best practice, published by the govt. stationary office, and endorsed by ROSPA, I think you'll have a hard time suggesting that anything else is better practice.
When Cyclecraft is widely acknowledged best practice, published by the govt. stationary office, and endorsed by ROSPA, I think you'll have a hard time suggesting that anything else is better practice.
hackbike 6
New Member
- Location
- The Mile End Road.
Good point nigeyy.As I have cycled many thousands of miles here and less than a few hundred miles abroad you must be right.
