How soon should you move into primary?

[gaz]

But dont they get annoyed that you dont turn right?

I only do that through pinch points where I am just too lazy to move out.

 

[Norm]

I can't put my hand on my copy at the moment, but i think cyclecraft disagrees with you

I'll be happy with that sort of endorsement.

 

[BentMikey]

Whilst I can see the logic that says moving within your own lane doesn't require indicating, the reality and the highway code are both different. Sure, it's possible to get away without indicating, but it's much better to be clear about what you intend to do, especially when most motorists consider that cyclists should only ride in the gutter, and preferably on the pavement. They don't know anything about primary, or why cyclists might want to be out there. Surely it's best to tell them what you're intending?

103
Signals warn and inform other road users, including pedestrians (see 'Signals to other road users'), of your intended actions. You should always
give clear signals in plenty of time, having checked it is not misleading to signal at that time
use them to advise other road users before changing course or direction, stopping or moving off
cancel them after use
make sure your signals will not confuse others. If, for instance, you want to stop after a side road, do not signal until you are passing the road. If you signal earlier it may give the impression that you intend to turn into the road. Your brake lights will warn traffic behind you that you are slowing down
use an arm signal to emphasise or reinforce your signal if necessary. Remember that signalling does not give you priority

 

[scouserinlondon]

Whilst I can see the logic that says moving within your own lane doesn't require indicating, the reality and the highway code are both different. Sure, it's possible to get away without indicating, but it's much better to be clear about what you intend to do, especially when most motorists consider that cyclists should only ride in the gutter, and preferably on the pavement. They don't know anything about primary, or why cyclists might want to be out there. Surely it's best to tell them what you're intending?

I tend to agree. I've been guilty of drifting to a different position without signalling myself and it's caused annoyance to other road users. Given the volume of cyclists on my commute I give a quick hand signal for any change in direction, such as overtaking another cyclist in the bus lane.

 

[sheddy]

One alternative to a hand signal is to put on a big wobble in good time. Most will slow down and wait.
Boy racers just overtake on the wrong side of the island

 

[Origamist]

It's difficult to put a distance on when to adopt a more prominent road position at pinchpoints. Partly, because if you're trundling along happily at 12 mph and you move out 80m before the traffic calming measure, you're likely to get more grief than if you move out at 80m before, when travelling at 24mph. Faster overtaking traffic can make it harder (particularly if there's a median), but I try to take a prominent secondary position as this makes merging a bit easier (certainly easier than if you're coming from the gutter). If you can get out early, I think it is better, but I don't worry overly if I have to leave it late. There's a pretty big zone on the approach to aim for and if you negotiaite the hazard successfully, I'd not worry if it is sub-IAM-optimal.

I try to look behind a couple of times before the pinch point (in advance and when I'm about a 5 secs away) and look for an opportunity to slot in if there's a lot of traffic. I prefer to do this by accelerating, but I will slow down and let cars come past as well. I don't use the 2/3 lane position very often, preferring the centralish line.

Generally, I do not indicate unless I feel I have to "force" my way into the flow or I am moving out of a cycle lane. Sometimes this means following traffic has to brake in order for me to merge and so I feel a signal helps to make my intentions clear; it catches the eye and can also act as a deterrent to passing.

Sometimes, it's not worth maintaining primary if a driver is keen to pass:

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2gehhELFZc[/media]

 

[briantrumpet]

The IAM state that you should do it 75-100m before hand.
But really you only need to do so maybe 10-20m before hand depending on traffic levels and speed.

Hmm, as you say, depending ..... At 20 mph you're covering 9 metres a second, so even 20m would be a bit hairy. I guess (if I were trying to put a figure on it) that I allow about five seconds or so before pinch points (having previously eyeballed anyone following me) - so that's going to be 45m at 20 mph or 67.5m at 30 mph .... but, as others have said, it's not an exact science, and comes down to experience, and getting to judge what (most) drivers will understand as sensible safe riding practice. Move out too late, and you'll surprise the driver, too early and they'll try to get round.

 

[briantrumpet]

Sometimes, it's not worth maintaining primary if a driver is keen to pass:

Exactly what I'd do in those circumstances - you can often sense the occasions when this is going to be the safest option - hold your line until there is suitable (if short) passing place: if the driver is alert and ready to pounce (you can normally judge this), and you make a deliberate move to the left, they'll get past you. If they don't, well, they'll have to wait a bit longer and be more alert for the next chance.

 

[GFamily]

My goofy-looking helmet mirror is really useful for this - it makes it a lot easier to track gaps and the speeds of approaching cars.

I think the action of looking over your shoulder gives other road users a clear indication that you are probably planning to do something - I also like to think that it gives people behind you the concept that you are a person, not just a high vis jacket with legs.

 

[Norm]

Whilst I can see the logic that says moving within your own lane doesn't require indicating, the reality and the highway code are both different. Sure, it's possible to get away without indicating, but it's much better to be clear about what you intend to do, especially when most motorists consider that cyclists should only ride in the gutter, and preferably on the pavement. They don't know anything about primary, or why cyclists might want to be out there. Surely it's best to tell them what you're intending?

I'm not sure that the HC disagrees with what I posted earlier, but I think that's down to interpretation.

The point you make above, though, is part of my reasoning. If I indicate to move across within my lane, then that could reinforce the thinking that only motorised vehicles should be away from the pavement and bikes have to ask permission to join the traffic flow.

I think it is more true when taking primary than at any other time that we are all "traffic" though, and my position within the lane is for me to decide and not to be bullied in to.

BTW, I am painting this very black and white. There have been occasions that I have signalled to move into primary, in heavy and fast moving traffic, for instance, but my default is only to signal a change in course or speed.

Oh, and BTW part II, "drifting" is most definitely something I don't do. Check it's clear and make a definite movement.

 

[BentMikey]

Perhaps riding in heavy London traffic means I have to be a little more assertive? Giving that hand signal often persuades the driver behind to slow up a little and allow me out into primary, as I'm often having to move out with a constant stream of traffic overtaking me. GFamily makes a good point on mirrors above, as that look back also helps in the same way.

 

[BentMikey]

I only do that through pinch points where I am just too lazy to move out.

I'm not sure whether lazy is the right word - with roads like Bromley Hill, to do it all properly with signalling, negotiating, etc. and dropping back between pinch points means an incredible amount of active work to the point of feeling a little overloaded. With pinch points once in a while it's no problem, but on that road they come thick and fast.

 

[summerdays]

It's impossible, IMO, to tell others where and when to do it, though, as it is entirely dependant on local circumstances at the exact point that you are there. When I move across going up hill is later than going down hill, junctions change things as does weather, traffic density, road widths, pedestrians... etc.

I agree with the above especially how things such as hills affect my speed and therefore when I change my position.

I think the action of looking over your shoulder gives other road users a clear indication that you are probably planning to do something - I also like to think that it gives people behind you the concept that you are a person, not just a high vis jacket with legs.

Today I needed to move out to turn right on a steep downhill with a pinch point (but one on which I have had one bad experience on). I knew I had following cars and they can exceed the speed limit here so I kept looking back nervously. And as a result they seemed to hang back long before I signalled. I know my confidence at this particular junction is affected for the immediate future.

On junctions that you know, then you begin to get to know what works best at that particular junction, but each time can be different.

 

[gaz]

Perhaps riding in heavy London traffic means I have to be a little more assertive? Giving that hand signal often persuades the driver behind to slow up a little and allow me out into primary, as I'm often having to move out with a constant stream of traffic overtaking me. GFamily makes a good point on mirrors above, as that look back also helps in the same way.

Lazy probably isn't the right word, but i was too lazy to think of the right one

 

[BentMikey]

*snigger*

...or to quote the right post.