mididoctors
Über Member
People talk a lot about no time trials ...how about no high mountains . ..no climb over 8k
How to improve the Tour
- Thread starter Dogtrousers
- Start date
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N0bodyOfTheGoat
Senior Member
- Location
- Hampshire, UK
It would never happen, but I'd love to see a 100Km individual TT on road bikes over ~1000m climbing using a number of Strava cat3 and cat 4 hills (so approx 263-1025 feet with average gradient over 3%).
You'd have to start the GC backmarkers not much later than ~0800, who would have the benefit of cooler temps, with the yellow jersey then heading off ~1200!
You'd have to start the GC backmarkers not much later than ~0800, who would have the benefit of cooler temps, with the yellow jersey then heading off ~1200!
Regular.Cyclist
Über Member
- Location
- South West Scotland 🏴
Not read the whole thread but for me it’s back to basics.
A ban on power meters, cadence sensors, HR sensors, team radio etc. Riders then need to become more aware of themselves and whatever is going on around them.
A ban on power meters, cadence sensors, HR sensors, team radio etc. Riders then need to become more aware of themselves and whatever is going on around them.
OP
OP
Dogtrousers
Kilometre nibbler
Michael Hutchinson is a bit dubious that a ban on power meters at that level would make any difference. He says that if you're at that level you're fully aware of your power. I guess he'd know. I don't have a clue, of course.
Beebo
Firm and Fruity
- Location
- Hexleybeef
It would massively penalise a good rider with a weak team. There would be huge time gaps.
Again, the time gaps could be enormous.
Beebo
Firm and Fruity
- Location
- Hexleybeef
I’d ban national champ jerseys. (Especially Quinn Simmons in the stupid USA jersey) 😁
It’s just too confusing to work out who is in which team.
It’s just too confusing to work out who is in which team.
Jameshow
Guru
I must admit to being uneasy at how thin the evidence for the existence of flying stages seems to be. I have a couple of Kennedy Brothers books covering the Tours of 1981 and 1985, both of which allegedly featured flying stages (1985 being the last) but I can't find mention of them at all.
Wikipedia cites Tour de France rules and statistics - Pieter van den Akker, which sounds like something I definitely ought to have. A trip to eBay, wait a few days, and I am the proud owner.
It isn't quite what I expected, being more of an entertaining read than a book of reference. The author only names his sources in general terms, so anyone wishing to use it as a guide to further research may be disappointed. He makes a full and valid explanation for this and makes it clear that he is willing to be consulted regarding any particular detail, but somehow I doubt whether the contributor(s) to Wikpedia did this.
Back to the subject of how to improve the Tour, I'm left in no doubt that some of the ideals on which the event was founded have been lost over the years. Selection of riders for the Tour is not what it was:
In the first years of the Tour de France, every man (women were not allowed) could start, as long as they had a valid cycling licence at the start of the Tour, and paid the entrance fee. Anyone under 21 needed permission from their parents.
Fairly soon it seems that demand for places outstripped supply.
Personally I enjoy time-trial days, but I've often felt uneasy at the influence that such a particular specialism has often had on the overall result. Since WW2, in 44 of 75 editions (up to 2021), time gained by the overall winner in time trials was crucial to the final result. Naturally Merckx would have won all his anyway, but without time trials Hinault would only have two wins, and Indurain none. Based on a totally invalid assumption, but interesting none the less.
On of the most exciting Tours, in 1987, is remembered as a three-way battle between Stephen Roche, Pedro Delgado and Jean-Francois Bernard. Of those Delgado was the strongest climber and Bernard the best time-triallist. But without time-trials the winner is none of those; it's the original and best Colombian climber (subjective judgment), Luis Herrera. He also comes out top in 1985, Hinault dropping down to 8th
Could we have a five year moratorium on time-trials? Or maybe go time-trial free in alternate years?
Got to be 4 seconds between Finon and Lemond??
Jameshow
Guru
Steel and down tube levers obvs.
A good example of why Stage 21 shouldn’t be processional.
MasterDabber
Veteran
- Location
- Surrey and the Lot in France
Haven't read the whole thread but.... I'd like to see a version where each team only had one rider ridden over a variety of stages,,,, sprint, TT and big mountains.... I guess it would need to be shorter, perhaps just a week, and probably shorter stages as well. Therefore no team tactics, no reliance on domestiques, rider against rider. Or perhaps a version with just two riders per team.
Aravis
Putrid Donut
- Location
- Gloucester
I've always looked forward to TT days largely because GC action is all but guaranteed. I don't think there's any doubt that the balance hasn't always been there. I'm edging towards the view that less TTing leads to a better the fight for GC, so does it follow that the best amount is zero?
Rightly enough there's plenty of debate around whether cobbles and gravel belong in a GT. Time trialling diverged along its own evolutionary path a long time ago, so that stage racing has become an amalgam of two separate sports. But it kinda works, and most importantly keeps people arguing.
I doubt that the outcome of any edition of the Tour has been more grotesquely affected by its TTs. The best rider in 1989, by some distance, was neither Lemond nor Fignon.
KingstonGraham
Well-Known Member
Could they make flat TTs optional in some way? Its only interesting for those that are interested in the GC position and the stage top 20, so maybe 70 or so riders. Have the opt outs roll round in a peloton first, and get given the time of the last finisher plus 20 minutes.
