Hub gear or derailleur for tour across china and pamir highway

[Brains]

In the extremely unlikely event of my Rohloff hub catastrophically failing my rear drop out will accommodate a single speed wheel or a derailleur set up. Any failure of the rear wheel could be a major inconvenience in remote areas but on the two occasions that it's happened to me with derailleured rear wheels I simply bought a replacement wheel, once in Dumfries and once in Dijon.

While cycling in Washington State this summer, I met a couple of Scots whose Rohloff hub on their tandem was leaking far more oil than it should. The hub will run perfectly fine without the full complement of oil but someone following the couple on CGOAB found a Rohloff agent on their route and had the failure diagnosed and replacement seals shipped ahead of their arrival at the agent's.

The 'problems' with Rohloff hubs are mostly illusory.

That is the critical bit, IF your rear drop out can ALSO take a dérailleur, then I'd also go with Rohloff, as you have a get out option if it goes wrong.
But if the frame only offers one or the other, then I'd go with dérailleur.

To a lesser degree, the same applies to disk/catalever brakes, if the frame can take both, get disks, but you have a get out if needed

As a Thorn Nomad owner (1999 frame, 2001 bike, so pre Rohloff and Disks) when buying a tourer you start with something in the the Thorn range as the benchmark bike, as most of the frames take all the options, but I'm sure some other reputable tourers do as well.

 

[Brains]

The only thing that puts me off the idea of a Rohloff is that yes, it weighs no more that a derailleur setup, BUT all that weight is on the rear axle rather than being spread between said axle and the bottom bracket. Add loaded rear panniers and that seems an awful lot of weight on the back wheel. I know that even with the modest 5 speed Sturmey hub on my street bike, the setup makes the bike rather 'front light / back heavy'.

You are talking about a tiny amount, on a touring bike a few KG more or less makes no difference
Also a wheel with a Rohlhoff hub has shorter spokes, so they are stronger than an identical wheel with a normal hub

 

[vernon]

The only thing that puts me off the idea of a Rohloff is that yes, it weighs no more that a derailleur setup, BUT all that weight is on the rear axle rather than being spread between said axle and the bottom bracket. Add loaded rear panniers and that seems an awful lot of weight on the back wheel. I know that even with the modest 5 speed Sturmey hub on my street bike, the setup makes the bike rather 'front light / back heavy'.

I'm a 23 stone rider. The weight difference between Rohloff and derailleur on the back wheel matter not one jot a few hundred grams isn't going to precipitate failure of the axle. My back axle has tandem loading on a solo bike. A touring bikes steering is inherently stable. I've confidently descended hills fully laden at 45mph. Front light as in wheel leaving the ground on an ascent? On those sort of gradients I resort to the 24" gear and get off and push.

 

[vernon]

I've not toured beyond Europe yet but so far I've found many more unreasonably steep grades in the UK than overseas though they may be short.

Also you're allowed to walk up hills.

At 100˚F+ temperatures a fifteen mile climb to a 7,500' summit is a long walk punctuated by short spells of pedalling.

The descent is fun though.

 

[mmmmartin]

My limited experience of a Rohloff is 1,000 faultless miles laden with full camping kit and front & rear panniers on gravel roads in Patagonia: it gave no problems at all. My experience of derailleur gears are also limited: several tarmac tours in western Europe: half with full camping kit and half using hotels.
The Rohloff is much easier to use - a simple twist of the wrist changes gear. It's great. The chain tends to be stronger and so stretch less.
Derailleur gears tend to click annoyingly with every cog because the grit, dirt and cable stretch that is inevitable with them combine to make exact adjustment hard, unless you have bar-end shifters.
I'd avoid the Shimano hub gears and if you can't afford a Rohloff, go for derailleurs of very good quality, with bar end shifters. What matters far more than the type of gears is the quality of wheels: go for 36 spokes. Steel racks cost £100 a go: ignore all aluminium versions they will certainly break. 26 inch wheels are a must. With this you can just buy a crappy mountain bike in a village and cannibalise it to get going again.
700c wheels with less than 36 spokes and cheap racks will give you grief beyond what human minds can withstand. As will a cheap tent.
Finally, probably the best thing you can do - apart from reading what @vernon says upthread - is to go on a bike maintenance course.
Finally finally, the one thing that almost all cycle tourists fret about before they go is the bike: after they return many wish they had learnt some of the local language so they could communicate better with the locals, who are, after all, the reason you have gone to their countries in the first place.
Er, that's all.

 

[frank9755]

All I'd add to the above is that it would be wise to give your setup a thorough testing closer to home before your trip to find any teethign issues. For example, most people get on very well with Rohloffs but a minority regularly break hub flanges. If it was me (and I wish it was!), I would take a derailleur, for the range of gears, the flexibility and ease of self-fixing. I'd also take a few spare spokes, hypercracker, spare chain, etc. But if you were confident in a tested hub-gear setup that could work fine.

 

[Dave the Cave]

Having spent a year riding from China back to the UK some years ago, I'd offer the following advice.

Keep your bike (and the rest of your kit), as simple and robust as you possibly can. You will encounter some terrible road conditions along the way and it's almost inevitable that something will break. So you need to think about your ability to fix it with what's available locally. I've got no personal experience of hub gears, but I think it's safe to say that if you did need to fix one in the wilds you'd struggle, whereas you could pick up a deralliur system (probably not great quality, but enough to keep you moving), almost anywhere.

Here's my best bit of advice though - and something I didn't do and regretted not doing: Get yourself hooked up with a local bike shop - tell them what you're doing. Show them your bike and ask them if they will act as your support in case you need spares couriering out to anywhere. We had a couple of major mechanicals (including bottom bracket and rear hub failures), and the delay in getting third parties to find replacements and get them couriered out to us was really frustrating.

Gear ratios? Loaded bike, steep hills, bad roads. You'll need some low gears!

Good luck

 

[mmmmartin]

^ ^ ^ this is all correct. Esp the bike shop. Thorn have proven track record in this area and I have been well pleased with their service. Recommended. Not cheap, but reliable and that's what counts. Can ship; to anywhere. Shame they don't do mechanic courses.

 

[ANT 666]

Rohloffs do have problems as I found out reading this blog www.cyclingthe6.com I know its a long post but quite interesting.
There is a very well established procedure for dealing with a broken Rohloff – it involves a pained sigh, a great deal of shrugging and a telephone call to Germany. And that’s not exactly reassuring.

I’ve been standing by the Rohloff like you might a criminal in the family. I am on my fifth Rohloff Hub. FIFTH! Here’s how it went down:

First one needed replacing after just 10,000 km when the flange broke (so not an internal failure, but a crack in the shell leaving me unable to tension a spoke). A new wheel arrived within five days to Khartoum. Rohloff report the incidence of this failure is one in five thousand. I know of two more cases. A coincidence? (I don’t know 15,000 cycle tourers).

The next one lasted about 45,000 km, until I lost four gears. The sliding clutch rings had failed. Rohloff replaced the hub in Australia in three days. All for free of course. Then after almost 20,000 km I lost four gears again. A new hub appeared in Mongolia in 4 days, again all courtesy of the company. Recently I’ve developed excessive play in the rear wheel and Rohloff are giving me another entire unit, the cause of the failure is not yet known.

A few things are clear: Rohloff are certainly not the ‘fit and forget’ they’re often considered to be. Plenty of riders are reporting issues. However their customer service remains impeccable. The obvious pros of the hub: No tinkering with front and rear mechs (good for the more reticent brand of mechanic like me), chains last longer as they don’t move between cogs, no need to replace cassettes and derailleurs, no mud or ice to clog up your gear mechs, you have the ability to change through multiple gears without pedaling, stronger rear wheel, no need to worry about broken derailleurs in trucks or on planes.

But…

If one goes one wrong, it will be a major hassle at the very least. And plainly they do go wrong, much more frequently than Rohloff would have you believe, although they will virtually never leave you stuck - often an internal failure means the loss of some gears, not the entire mechanism. They are also very expensive (budget in the regular oil changes as well, not just the hub) and you usually need to use special parts for replacements, and you often won’t be able to find these locally: cables, shifters, oil change kit, sprockets. Of course the reduced range of gears and absence of a very low gear when compared to the standard setup are also drawbacks.

It’s getting mighty tough to defend them, even with the company’s trademark personal touch. If you really don’t like to tinker with bikes, and if you have the money to spare, perhaps it’s still a good investment, then again perhaps not. The jury is still out.

 

[Brains]

^ ^ ^ this is all correct. Esp the bike shop. Thorn have proven track record in this area and I have been well pleased with their service. Recommended. Not cheap, but reliable and that's what counts. Can ship; to anywhere. Shame they don't do mechanic courses.

A Thorn bike will be worth the investment, it does not have to be new.
Even a beaten up one with 50K miles on the clock would be better than a new mid-entry bike.
The advantage of a bike, especially a Thorn, is every bit is replaceable, by mail order, globally.

And with a Thorn, you just give your name or the frame number and they know the rest, so when you say you need a replacement middle ring or bottom bracket, they don't even need to ask the colour

 

[Spoked Wheels]

You are talking about a tiny amount, on a touring bike a few KG more or less makes no difference
Also a wheel with a Rohlhoff hub has shorter spokes, so they are stronger than an identical wheel with a normal hub

I rebuilt @SatNavSaysStraightOn's OH Rolhoff wheel and I'm yet to come across another wheel that is as strong.
The spokes are certainly shorter and there are only 32 of them but what makes the difference is that the wheel is not dished and the rim is absolutely solid.
A problem with the Alfine hub is that there are no dedicated rims for it so the spokes from the flange meet the rim at an excessive angle which makes wheels prone to brake spokes. This is easily confused with the wheel not being properly stress relieved but there are plenty of examples there of wheels built by very good and experienced builders that break spokes.

I can't remember the name of the rim for the Rolhoff but it's a rim that has the holes drilled for a good spoke angle.

There are reports that Rolhoff gear hubs have flanges issues. This might be a problem with over tensioned spokes. A standard drive side spoke would be tensioned at around the 120kgf a bit more for 11 speeds hubs. The recommended tension for Rolhoff gear hubs is 97 kgf max IIRC. Not being dished, the wheel doesn't need spokes too tight.

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

I can't remember the name of the rim for the Rolhoff but it's a rim that has the holes drilled for a good spoke angle

It was a rigida andora CSS rim. I believe that they also now in a 36 hole to go with the 36 home version Rohloff hub.

This is the link to the rim. The only down side is that there are only 1 set of brake pads recommended for the rim. Swisstop blue pads. They are however excellent and last a very long time one the first set have bedded in. My first set lasted 14,000 km. My OH's first set 9,000km. Our second sets are still going strong. I have heard of people going 22,000 km on their 2nd sets and carrying a spare set of pads is not really an issue. Getting hold of them though can be.
www.sjscycles.co.uk/mobile/rigida-andra-30-26-559-mtb-css-rim-rohloff-drilling-black-32-hole-prod13269/

 

[snorri]

I can't remember the name of the rim for the Rolhoff but it's a rim that has the holes drilled for a good spoke angle.

Indeed, allowing for the spoke angle is vital, a fact apparently unknown to the "expert" who built the wheel for my new Rohloff hub.
Since the wheel has been rebuilt with a Rigida Grizzly* rim there has been no further problem.
*Other brands of rim may well be available.