Hub gear or derailleur for tour across china and pamir highway

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

Pitseleh

New Member
Hi

Next year I am cycling across china and then through Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. I am researching what bike to buy/build at the moment and wondered if anyone had any advice?

I'm tempted by a hub gear because of the reduced likelihood of it breaking and also because I can change gears while stopped, quickly on a hill etc. but I'm worried that they won't give me a big enough range of gears. I don't think I can afford the 14 speed rohloff so I'm looking at the alfine 11 speed. Does anyone have any experience of it and whether it is much worse than the rohloff when going up hills? (I'm nervous about how steep the pamir highway is going to be). Also about how the highest gear on the alfine 11 compares to a normal derailleur bike (my bike at the moment is a ten speed 12-30 with 50/34 chain ring). Sorry if these questions sound stupid I'm a bit clueless but want to learn!

Thanks
 

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
The Alfine 11 does not have a very low first gear, although that can be improved a bit by using a larger sprocket on the rear and/or a smaller ring on the front.

But you need to be wary of over torquing the hub - Shimano give recommended teeth combinations in the instruction leaflet for the hub.

I have an Alfine 11 which went pop after about 18 months.

To be fair to Madison/Shimano, they fixed it for nothing when they could easily have played the 'out of warranty' card.

My researches at the time indicated the eight speed hub is sturdier, although I have no engineering proof of that.
 
I use an Alfine 11 and I would not like to do any real heavy touring with it for the same reasons as Pale Rider has said. Also, take into consideration the problems changing an inner tube or tyre. If you can stretch your budget go for the Rohloff, maybe you can get a secondhand one.
 

raleighnut

Legendary Member
I'd be tempted to go for a 6-7 speed freewheel (screw on) set up with a square taper triple crank, you should be able to get spares for that anywhere. I'd even go for a shaft and caged bearing set up as opposed to a sealed unit BB for the same reason.
My Ridgeback has had that set-up for thousands of miles and has been ultra reliable, just takes a bit of fettling before a trip to check things over and regrease.
 
Rohloff is by far the best option for this type of tour

From the lesser maintenance and adjustment to the lack of vulnerability compared to a dérailleur there are lots of pros

The spokes are evenly tensioned due to the lack of dishing and hence he wheels are stronger as well

Gearing selection is simply a case of matching the rings

Having said that the ultimate is to match the Rohloff with a Schlumpf for a really impressive gear range

My Gekko has a 34/85 tooth front ring

 

vernon

Harder than Ronnie Pickering
Location
Meanwood, Leeds
If worries about the Alfine having a low enough bottom gear exist then the Rohloff is the hub to go for. When I had my touring bike built, I was offered Alfine or Rohloff hubs as a build option. The Rohloff was only just affordable and the Alfine would have left a tidy sum of money to spend on a tour. I researched the gearing that the two hubs offered and the Rohloff offered the lower bottom gear by a decent margin and matched that offered by a 22/34 granny ring combination on 700c wheels i.e. 17" The gearing of my set up is just inside the acceptable range for torque.

For those who argue that this unnecessarily low I'd counter with you can't have too low a bottom gear when touring fully loaded. The smallest of hills at the end of a challenging day's ride can be the final straw for tired legs and the UK is a poor preparation for the scale and duration for climbs encountered overseas.

Do some mugging up on the gearing and see if you can purchase a second hand Rohloff hubbed bike. Thorn sometimes have trade-ins on offer.
 

GrumpyGregry

Here for rides.
For those who argue that this unnecessarily low I'd counter with you can't have too low a bottom gear when touring fully loaded. The smallest of hills at the end of a challenging day's ride can be the final straw for tired legs and the UK is a poor preparation for the scale and duration for climbs encountered overseas.
^This. In spades.
 

22camels

Active Member
the UK is a poor preparation for the scale and duration for climbs encountered overseas.

I've not toured beyond Europe yet but so far I've found many more unreasonably steep grades in the UK than overseas though they may be short.

Also you're allowed to walk up hills.

I went through a similar decision process myself over the past two years and though the epic tour has yet to happen and so maybe all my choices were completely wrong, for the hub gear vs derailleur debate, I decided that even if I could afford one (the Rohloff one that is - the Alfine one still doesn't sound very reliable plus the gearing is not low enough it seems), I would not particularly want it - it sounds great if you don't like to get your hands dirty - but I didn't like the idea of a black box that you have to send somewhere to get fixed - yes they only break 1 in a billion times but it does happen - so I think it will always be derailleurs for me as I am comfortable enough with how they work that I am confident I will always be able to fix it myself or find someone to fix it.
 
^This. In spades.
and more.
 
I would not like to use my Alfine on a back-of-beyond mountain tour. It doesn't have the internal robustness of Rohloff.
Rohloff specifiy low gears for solo and tandem/heavy riders with different wheel size. Most German specs should be read as Do Not Exceed. The only exception seems to be the lack of crank spec. Longer or shorter cranks change the amount of torque you can exert in any sprocket combination.
 
From what I have read and my own experiences of touring in wild places I would for myself stay with a normal derailleur setup, OK they are not so reliable as the Hub gear but at least you can bodge the gear train to keep the wheels turning, rather than having to maybe get a lift to the nearest repair station or worse still have to ship it back to the manufacturers to be fixed.
 

Brains

Legendary Member
Location
Greenwich
Outside northern Europe I go with a dérailleur, which can be fixed or replaced by any reasonable roadside bike shop, or if you have the skills and tools by yourself or other touring cyclists, and that includes the possible need to replace a rear wheel, spokes or a rim or a normal hub

A hub gear, needs an expert, so a breakage of either the hub gear, or the rear wheel is going to mean at least major inconvenience, or possibly termination of the trip.
When touring outside Northern Europe, K.I.S.S.!
 
I'd be tempted to go for a 6-7 speed freewheel (screw on) set up with a square taper triple crank, you should be able to get spares for that anywhere.

Shimano freehubs provide a substantially stronger rear axle assembly that eliminates axle bending and breakage.
The most high-end freehubs now put weight ahead of durability, but LX grade hubs are made OK, the old fashioned way, with steel axle, large ball bearings and tough freehubs. Sealing against dirt is quite good.

ST cranks are a reliable choice.
 

vernon

Harder than Ronnie Pickering
Location
Meanwood, Leeds
Outside northern Europe I go with a dérailleur, which can be fixed or replaced by any reasonable roadside bike shop, or if you have the skills and tools by yourself or other touring cyclists, and that includes the possible need to replace a rear wheel, spokes or a rim or a normal hub

A hub gear, needs an expert, so a breakage of either the hub gear, or the rear wheel is going to mean at least major inconvenience, or possibly termination of the trip.
When touring outside Northern Europe, K.I.S.S.!

Absolute rubbish! :okay:

If it's good enough for Mark Beaumont's 18,000 mile trip...

Since taking on the world, Mark has been sponsored by Koga Miyata and he made his global journey on a custom-built Signature. “It was a big, 63cm aluminium frame and I rode 700cc wheels on a Rohloff 14-speed hub with a Smitz front hub dynamo,” he says. “Out front, I rode butterfly bars on a 110mm stem for a more stretched position for the big flats. It was an incredibly comfortable and reliable setup. I also rode a SMP Pro saddle, which looks very alternative with its eagle beak and big split, but proved amazing for the big miles.”

Mark was unsupported en route, so he carried all his own kit, fitting it into a standard five-pannier setup that included GPS Iridium tracking, film kit, laptop, clothes, camping gear and food.

“I changed a back tyre every 2,000 miles and a front tyre every 3,500 miles,” he explains. “The Rohloff was superb throughout and took less than 1,000 miles to run in smoothly, so I only used three chains throughout and had one oil change. It was incredibly low maintenance – I wouldn’t go back to a derailleur setup for long tours. The only big challenge I had was with broken wheels and that was caused by a mistake with the initial set up where the spokes were over-tensioned.”

In the extremely unlikely event of my Rohloff hub catastrophically failing my rear drop out will accommodate a single speed wheel or a derailleur set up. Any failure of the rear wheel could be a major inconvenience in remote areas but on the two occasions that it's happened to me with derailleured rear wheels I simply bought a replacement wheel, once in Dumfries and once in Dijon.

While cycling in Washington State this summer, I met a couple of Scots whose Rohloff hub on their tandem was leaking far more oil than it should. The hub will run perfectly fine without the full complement of oil but someone following the couple on CGOAB found a Rohloff agent on their route and had the failure diagnosed and replacement seals shipped ahead of their arrival at the agent's.

The 'problems' with Rohloff hubs are mostly illusory.

I've been happy with the problem free service that my Rohoff hubbed bike has delivered in Austria, Germany, The Czech Republic, Hungary, Croatia, Serbia, North America and Canada. The only concession that I made was to take a spare drive belt with me to the USA as bike shops were not very common on the route that I rode. Much to my surprise, when I did call into bike shops in the quiet backwaters for bits and pieces, they all enthused about the reliability of the Rohloff and how the numbers of Rohloff bikes are growing in the hand made trade.

My Rohloff bike has required only the replacement of brake blocks, tyres and hub oil plus one re-tension of the belt drive in the three and a half years that I've owned it. Theres still several years worth of wear left in the belt.

My derailleur geared bikes have needed regular cleaning and oiling of chains with regular tweaks to the derailleur gear cable adjusters and the replacement of the chains when they reach their wear limits.

I was sceptical about Rohloff hubs and spent two or three years thinking about buying a Thorn but they were too evangelical in their literature for my liking. Talking to other cycle tourers with Rohloff hubbed bikes softened my anti Rohloff stance and was very curious about the belt drive Rohloff touring bike ridden by a dutch cyclist. He answered all of the obvious questions e.g.

Q. "What if the belt snaps?"
A. "It doesn't and if it did I'd have one couriered in."

Q. "What of stones get stuck between the belt and the sprockets."
A. "They don't"

Q. "What if the belt wears out?"
A. "This belt has done 15,000km and it's still going strong. I'm putting a new one on this winter."

Q. "Won't it slip or degrade if oil gets on it?"
A. "Nope."

Q. "There has to be a downside?"
A "Yes. The top gear is pretty low and I often 'pedal out' on descents but hey! I'm touring not racing!"

When Woodrup Cycles lent me their prototype Chimera for a weekend I was blown away by the cycling experience and I immediately started to rearrange my finances to facilitate a purchase. I have absolutely no regrets about acquiring a Rohloff hubbed bike and I've yet to meet a dissatisfied owner.
 

simongt

Guru
Location
Norwich
The only thing that puts me off the idea of a Rohloff is that yes, it weighs no more that a derailleur setup, BUT all that weight is on the rear axle rather than being spread between said axle and the bottom bracket. Add loaded rear panniers and that seems an awful lot of weight on the back wheel.:training: I know that even with the modest 5 speed Sturmey hub on my street bike, the setup makes the bike rather 'front light / back heavy'.
 
Top Bottom