classic33
Leg End Member
Just get them to make certain that at least one person signs in & clocks in either side of them. Same person(people) doing it would raise questions.
Human Resources
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It's perfectly possible to self organise in a workplace, there is nothing special about union representatives or even to a certain extent union officials. It does come down to a basic need for someone who has the patience to read policies, can talk to management/office and communicate these things. It's also a time thing. Due to changes in tribunal fees (£250 + £950) sadly Trades Unions are more useful than they were in the past. In terms of the ACAS code of conduct (recently rewritten on this point) there are three categories of people - worker, official and rep.
It's possible HR are right, but without seeing it in writing I simply wouldn't believe them, nor does that mean it isn't open for challenge. I would be surprised if there wasn't a policy that didn't mention what happens in the event of a fault or breakdown and sometimes people make stuff up. There are various motivations or reasons HR might have if they are wrong such as more work for them which they don't want to do, incompetence, lack of knowledge or trying to save money or some other reason. It's hard to say. You really need to be given a handbook and/or policy. It sounds like some managers are on your side so I'd say that's good enough momentum for keeping going.
Bonuses as already alluded to by two other posters do come under unlawful deductions from wages. The problem I have here is not seeing the policy or contract. If it says in the contract a bonus is paid to those turning up on time the intention of the wording would be fairly clear that it should be paid here if it goes wrong. If it referred specifically instead to a clocking in machine that would be a different matter.
Ah the semi-automated system! The 15 mins thing is fairly standard too. You need to find out precisely how it works in terms of who does it, when, policy etc. My guess is that it is done by someone in payroll (possibly someone you've never met) and they see the print outs and thought yeah he's on time every day and just wrote it down as 40hrs or perhaps it got sent to a manager who then said yeah I'm sure they worked 40hrs. The same sort of thing is seen in a lot of companies (although a bonus is more unusual).
srw
It's a bit more complicated than that...
Bad advice. If someone comes to me with all the facts and doesn't add anything later I'm more inclined to help them. If someone comes to me and I later discover they've not been fully transparent, especially if I would have made a different decision with more information, then I'll be less than supportive.
The Jogger
Legendary Member
- Location
- Spain
I would immediately put in a grievance as HR would be quick at sorting it if you owed them money, just look at what they do when you are one day late, you lose the weekly bonus. If they do nothing about it within a short period, complete a ET1 form to begin an ET claim for illegal deduction of wages. Don't go easy with them as usually they are ruthless bastards when the boot is on the other foot.
The Jogger
Legendary Member
- Location
- Spain
it feels like its been a battle from the start....when 4 of us were offered contracts in December, we were given a poorly constructed contract, it felt like they pulled any old one from their files and added our names, one of the lads had his name spelt wrong he's been working here for over 2 years .....after making lots of amendments we finally got a contract which we could sign but they altered the date to the new contract date, we had to then argue for it to be back dated as they messed up and not us...
I think the company might be regretting giving me a contract...
Yes you would need to be careful,as you are there less than two years in their employment, let your work colleague deal with them direct, they really sound incompetent but why am I not surprised.
Classically, a simpler case (without bonus), unlawful deductions from wages would stand a very good chance of winning. You have a 3 month time limit for most employment tribunals. You have to make your mind up relatively quickly (the new clocking in machine and manager asking for you looks promising though). There was someone I know who was advised badly by someone else and for some reason (see above) kept information back from the employer and then dropped his ET case and then hacked the employer off. He then changed his mind and then couldn't redo the ET unless the behaviour he was wanting to stop started again (not like he wanted that).
It isn't that simple any more anyway. You have to fill in an ACAS early conciliation form (dead easy but it won't let you do the ET1 unless you have the certificate/number). Additionally you will want to apply for remission which must be done within 7 days of putting the ET1 in. A remission form is called an EX160a which is relatively simple by legal standards but you may feel you're playing the card game Go Johnny, go, go, go, go from the League of Gentlemen if you have complicated personal circumstances. For this case (others are more expensive as said earlier) it's likely to cost you a portion of £390 as the threshold is set very low).
The Jogger
Legendary Member
- Location
- Spain
Yes it's a bit long winded now up until relatively recently it was just a case of submitting the et1 direct.
