I done bought me some dangle-hoops

[wafter]

More passive dangling today.

The headliner was that I managed a 20-second single-arm hang on each side, which is double what was achieved last time. This also elicted some pops and cracks from my neck that hadn't been released by the earlier side-hangs, while my knackered shoulder felt so much better afterwards (I think more due to the general stretch than the areas that cracked specifically).

This seems to do just as good as / a better job at stretching everything than the side-hangs I was doing so I think I'll stick to these now

 

[Webbo2]

You may actually be doing damage to your shoulder by just hanging or do you try to engage the shoulder muscles by attempting to pull up. Hanging fully extended on the joint is a big no no in rock climbing, even when hanging on both arms.

 

[wafter]

You may actually be doing damage to your shoulder by just hanging or do you try to engage the shoulder muscles by attempting to pull up. Hanging fully extended on the joint is a big no no in rock climbing, even when hanging on both arms.

Thanks - that's interesting and I wasn't aware of that - a lot of (non-rock climbing) sources I've seen promote fully-passive / relaxed hangs (yeah, I'm aware of the potential folly of believing what one reads on the internet).

In the past with the two-handed hangs I've done a mixture of passive transitioning into active hangs (by engaging the scapula and shoulders to pull myself up towards the bar) however ironically this sometimes causes the niggly shoulder to complain, while the totally passive hangs give no discomfort and just a really pleasant stretch.

Usually the relief from the shoulder pain is instant and removes maybe 80% of the discomfort - almost completely eliminating it in some directions of movement and making it a lot less unpleasant in others - perhaps because it's a trapped nerve and the stretch is temporarily opening the joint up. I'm not sure that it's having any positive effect long-term and doesn't seem to be recovering despite avoiding the exercises that really cause problems (typically stuff that loads the shoulder up behind the main plain of the body).

After reading your post I did do a bit more research with some sites suggesting some level of engagement in the shoulders so will try this and see how I get on next time.

It's been like it for months now so I probably ought to get it looked at..

 

[Webbo2]

I take it you are male. Which in its self is a risk of rotor cuff damage. I say this as I have had tendons repaired in both shoulders and the surgeon informed that mens shoulder tendons can deteriorate without any significant injure.
With my right shoulder which I had repaired 2 years ago I was having some discomfort but it didn’t some me doing things. I choose a conservative approach seeing a physio ay first however when I was unable to do some of the exercises she recommended mainly shoulder press type things. She recommended getting a scan or seeing a shoulder consultant.
Turned I had some major tears in the tendons and very significant arthritic damage.
So I would suggest getting it seem sooner rather than later.

 

[wafter]

Thanks; maybe I'll add it to the growing list of complaints for the doctor's visit I keep putting off..

 

[wafter]

Another inconsequential update.

Heeding @Webbo2's advice I'm now restricting the hangs to almost completely active / with shoulders engaged. I do allow myself a little, short dip (a couple of seconds) into a fully relaxed hang since this often gets a pop out of my back and usually three consistent ones from my neck if I angle my head down left, right and forwards during the process... which does seem to free everything up.

I've ramped up the static holds and rows to two sets per sitting (I was originally doing three, then cut it to one due to illness / fatigue and struggled somewhat to come back from this). Thanks to a bit of weight loss recently both exercises have improved a little and while my abilities remain extremely limited the support hold especially feels increasingly comfortable and controlled. I can consistently turn the rings out to about 45 degrees now and IIRC managed 1:30 mins recently on the first sitting although 1-1:15 is more normal.

I have a few ideas for progressions from here - perhaps I need to try and push for a bit more outward rotation at the wrist although I feel like I'm pushing my range of moment currently.

I'm gradually trying more forward lean as this pulls my forearms away from being braced against the rings and requires more strength / control as my arms move away from the vertical as that turning moment needs to be reacted. I also want to try and straighten my body out as my posture is currently pretty "hollow" with my legs extending out in front of me a bit.

The natural end-game to heading in this direction would be a planch, which is basically like holding a pressup position with horizontal body on the rings. This takes an insane amount of strength and control - probably a level I'll never reach but I can dream..

I'm also looking to try a bit more rearward lean in the support hold too; and will try and get my legs out in front of me for an L-sit which seems a bit less unachievable but still taxing.

Like everything else on the rings the smallest progressions aren't easy and often feel like starting from scratch such is the instability present when daring to make even the tiniest of changes.

In keeping with this I recently attempted what I think would be tucked inverted rows as a progression from the usual inverted rows (with my heels on the ground) - this is essentially hanging beneath the rings with back horizontal and knees tucked to the chest and pulling upwards into the rings.

Predictably I failed to even hold the form let alone do any reps... I did discover I was able to hang mostly upside-down with my toes pointing to the sky and legs vertical... which felt pretty good. I can only get into this position currently with the rings low and from kicking up from lying on my back so my shoulders remain rounded and my neck bent as there's not enough space for my head..

This exercise has piqued my interest though so the plan will be to try and raise the rings and improve the form so I'm both fully vertical and straight. Two days later this first go has punished the outside of my shoulders and my side-abs, which are bits evidently not seeing enough attention from other exercises.

I've also become a bit more confident on the monkey bars - now being able to swing from one to the next (rather than the "half measures" of stopping in the middle with both hands on the same bar) although my technique remains shoddy with legs flailing all over the place. Something else to try and get better at though which no doubt will bring transferable strength / skill.



On a different tack I was advised of an assisted pull up machine in a local park recently and gave that a go. Whilst initially put off by how easy it was (I went on to do 20 reps versus the zero I can do unassisted) the effects were certainly felt over the following days - especially in my upper lats although I'm not sure how much my shoulders appreciated it. I think while the ring rows are definitely hitting the lats too it's a different area / in a different direction so is only going to contribute so much to aiding my pull up ability.

I've visited a number of times since this discovery and am now up to about 30 reps. I reckon the machine probably gives in the region of 2:1 assistance and also has value in dictating the correct wide-grip, which previously I was missing before - the narrower grip with near-full arm extension only serving to make the whole process even more impossible.

This excursion has also highlighted how potentially I need to be doing more on the rings, since despite the last session feeling like enough at the time I suffered zero DOMS in the days afterwards, perhaps suggesting I'd not worked hard enough.

In other news my upper arms remain undeveloped so I continue to target these with arm curls; I hear inclined benches are good for this but I have no room for one. I'm also trying to do more narrow-ish grip press ups to hit the triceps; something I've always struggled with but I think my reduced weight has actually made these achievable. I'm also not sure how "good" my previous wide-grip efforts were for my shoulders.

All this currently seems like a bit of a mess - with opportunities scattered across two parks with the weights at home; really I need to figure out some sort of cohesive program to most efficiently fit everything in / factor in recovery time... as currently everything just gets done ad-hoc / when I feel like it... although I suppose this is better than nowt

 

[postman]

I bought some onion rings do they count as keeping fit.

 

[Webbo2]

Another inconsequential update.

Heeding @Webbo2's advice I'm now restricting the hangs to almost completely active / with shoulders engaged. I do allow myself a little, short dip (a couple of seconds) into a fully relaxed hang since this often gets a pop out of my back and usually three consistent ones from my neck if I angle my head down left, right and forwards during the process... which does seem to free everything up.

I've ramped up the static holds and rows to two sets per sitting (I was originally doing three, then cut it to one due to illness / fatigue and struggled somewhat to come back from this). Thanks to a bit of weight loss recently both exercises have improved a little and while my abilities remain extremely limited the support hold especially feels increasingly comfortable and controlled. I can consistently turn the rings out to about 45 degrees now and IIRC managed 1:30 mins recently on the first sitting although 1-1:15 is more normal.

I have a few ideas for progressions from here - perhaps I need to try and push for a bit more outward rotation at the wrist although I feel like I'm pushing my range of moment currently.

I'm gradually trying more forward lean as this pulls my forearms away from being braced against the rings and requires more strength / control as my arms move away from the vertical as that turning moment needs to be reacted. I also want to try and straighten my body out as my posture is currently pretty "hollow" with my legs extending out in front of me a bit.

The natural end-game to heading in this direction would be a planch, which is basically like holding a pressup position with horizontal body on the rings. This takes an insane amount of strength and control - probably a level I'll never reach but I can dream..

I'm also looking to try a bit more rearward lean in the support hold too; and will try and get my legs out in front of me for an L-sit which seems a bit less unachievable but still taxing.

Like everything else on the rings the smallest progressions aren't easy and often feel like starting from scratch such is the instability present when daring to make even the tiniest of changes.

In keeping with this I recently attempted what I think would be tucked inverted rows as a progression from the usual inverted rows (with my heels on the ground) - this is essentially hanging beneath the rings with back horizontal and knees tucked to the chest and pulling upwards into the rings.

Predictably I failed to even hold the form let alone do any reps... I did discover I was able to hang mostly upside-down with my toes pointing to the sky and legs vertical... which felt pretty good. I can only get into this position currently with the rings low and from kicking up from lying on my back so my shoulders remain rounded and my neck bent as there's not enough space for my head..

This exercise has piqued my interest though so the plan will be to try and raise the rings and improve the form so I'm both fully vertical and straight. Two days later this first go has punished the outside of my shoulders and my side-abs, which are bits evidently not seeing enough attention from other exercises.

I've also become a bit more confident on the monkey bars - now being able to swing from one to the next (rather than the "half measures" of stopping in the middle with both hands on the same bar) although my technique remains shoddy with legs flailing all over the place. Something else to try and get better at though which no doubt will bring transferable strength / skill.



On a different tack I was advised of an assisted pull up machine in a local park recently and gave that a go. Whilst initially put off by how easy it was (I went on to do 20 reps versus the zero I can do unassisted) the effects were certainly felt over the following days - especially in my upper lats although I'm not sure how much my shoulders appreciated it. I think while the ring rows are definitely hitting the lats too it's a different area / in a different direction so is only going to contribute so much to aiding my pull up ability.

I've visited a number of times since this discovery and am now up to about 30 reps. I reckon the machine probably gives in the region of 2:1 assistance and also has value in dictating the correct wide-grip, which previously I was missing before - the narrower grip with near-full arm extension only serving to make the whole process even more impossible.

This excursion has also highlighted how potentially I need to be doing more on the rings, since despite the last session feeling like enough at the time I suffered zero DOMS in the days afterwards, perhaps suggesting I'd not worked hard enough.

In other news my upper arms remain undeveloped so I continue to target these with arm curls; I hear inclined benches are good for this but I have no room for one. I'm also trying to do more narrow-ish grip press ups to hit the triceps; something I've always struggled with but I think my reduced weight has actually made these achievable. I'm also not sure how "good" my previous wide-grip efforts were for my shoulders.

All this currently seems like a bit of a mess - with opportunities scattered across two parks with the weights at home; really I need to figure out some sort of cohesive program to most efficiently fit everything in / factor in recovery time... as currently everything just gets done ad-hoc / when I feel like it... although I suppose this is better than nowt

I would suggest that you ditch the rings till you get stronger. Things like lat pull downs will develop your pull up strength or bent over rows. Bench dips I.e.hands at your side on one bench feet on another and dip down or tricep press on the lat machine.
Rings are for when you have some serious power to weight strength and are able to do a fair few pull-ups or dips.
Back in the day I could do 30 pull-ups 50 dips and a one arm pull-up. The first time I went on the rings it took me ages to get in pressed out with straight arms position.My mate who was showing me how to things sort of just flicked in to that position using techn not strength.
However as soon as I got in to that position I could do an Iron cross much the to ire of my mate who couldn’t do despite using then on regular basis.😂😂😂💪💪💪💪

 

[postman]

Do you know marriage is made up of rings,engagement ring,wedding ring and suffer ring.

 

[wafter]

Recently I found somewhere near the homestead that allows the rings to be dangled from a higher point - maybe 3m as opposed to the likely-a-bit-over 2m I can get in the usual park.

This makes everything tangibly less stable and at first I struggled to do a support hold at all; later managing one for 20-25 seconds versus the 45 seconds to a minute I can do when using the usual lower monkey bars (with more external rotation too).

Initially this was pretty demoralising and (as with transitioning to an externally rotated hold) serves to illustrate how seemingly little changes can be very challenging to achieve. This does however present another area for progression which I’m keen to explore... although I’m not sure of anywhere in Oxford where I can hang the rings at a similar height.

Another advantage of a higher anchor point is the ability to do near-full-extension pull ups on the rings; which is really nice since it allows the hands to rotate freely about the vertical axis rather than being constrained as would be the case with a bar. When left to their own devices the hands start co-axially as would be the case with an overhand grip on a horizontal bar, but throughout the movement rotate externally to a neutral / parallel position at top of the pull. This feels really comfortable, natural and I suspect is kinder to the shoulders than using a bar.

I managed 2-3 of these with near full range of motion; the exercise unsurprisingly being hardest at the bottom with the arms fully extended. I’m really trying to labour the eccentric / negative / downward part of the movement to get the most from the few reps I can manage.

I also managed to hang upside-down again; although with terrible form and bracing my feet against the straps as I had no chance of keeping myself upright otherwise with the diminished stability of the higher anchor point. This was nice in that for the first time it allowed me to remain in that position fairly easily for a period of time with my head fully inverted; which was a novelty

While keen to explore the use benefits of hanging the rings higher, the lower monkey bars do have their advantages; being low enough to allow the rings to be suspended near the ground for press-ups (which I continue to slowly improve on, if my form remains terrible) as well as the uprights giving me something to brace my feet against when doing inverted rows.

I also tried a few careful dips on some empty bike racks. I think previously dips have triggered shoulder pain (which remains, albeit less severely). Having done a bit of homework I wondered if this was due to poor technique / elbow flaring, however on this occasion I made sure to tuck them in and still felt a bit of discomfort in the affected area if thankfully no catastrophic twinge.

This seems to be a problem with loading the shoulders when my arms are behind me and I suspect that as with the pull-ups, doing this movement on the rings would allow more freedom of rotational movement at the hands which might be kinder to the shoulders; however I currently lack the strength to do even one of these.

In other news I continue to supplement the rings with free weights to fill in the gaps a bit. I’m trying to do more standing bicep curls (which apparently is not ideal due to the lack of loading at full extension but I don’t have the kit to do them inclined), and overhead tricep extensions which I can do with one of the dumbbells I use for the curls.

I’ve also started doing shrugs to target my traps, and recently picked up another set of dumbbells locally for a reasonable price so I can now run a lighter pair for doing lateral raises to target the side-delts.

I did one set of each of the above after the short rings session and subsequently felt a nice, seemingly near-universal warmth and soreness in my shoulders / arms / back so it feels like I’m hitting most of the areas I’m aiming for.

As usual progress remains chronically slow and I’m not seeing much in the way of progression in terms of mass I can lift, although tangible improvements in form on the rings is encouraging.

Sessions remain undisciplined and sporadic due to time constraints, seemingly long recovery times and limited energy, probably due to my poor sleep which probably isn’t helping elsewhere.

I’ll keep plugging away though as I want to concentrate on the strength training throughout the winter as the bike miles inevitably fall and the eating potentially drifts into an energy surplus.. while just getting out and doing something is reward in itself.

While still a bit sore today I won’t get the opportunity to do anything until Thursday at the earliest so might go for a mosey on the bike to look for higher spots to hang the rings and maybe have a little non-committal session in the usual place