I think it may be time for a new frame...

[Andy in Germany]

Today I happened to be at work, so I decided to swap the cassette on my touring bike: The 11 tooth gear had (once again) worn down long before anything else. I dropped the back wheel, cassette off, new cassette on, no worries.

The gears didn't work. Eventually found the wheel wasn't straight in the horizontal dropout (I'd checked the hanger, mech, and dropper were all as they should be). Furthermore, it proved pretty much impossible to straighten it out: the dropouts seem scratched and the wheel jumps between the scratches; just pulling the axle back to the limit results in a wonky wheel.

This was a conversion from a 26" wheeled mountain bike, built with my son some years ago when I had less experience working with bikes. These Horizontal dropouts have always given me some trouble: the chain stays are built for a 6 or 7 speed gear block, and are a little too tight for an 8 speed cassette. Apart from that I had to replace the forks because they were not straight, and the whole bike does feel a little small. Now, even if I get the axle straight, if I have to remove the wheel, it seems impossible to get it back in place accurately without a bike stand.

Now I've got a couple of options for frames: one is a rather lovely lugged 80's/90's Chromoly lugged steel frame, and the other is in the remains of a VSF Fahrradmanufaktur T400. Either would probably work well, and I have someone willing to solder the lugs on for the main bar gear levers. Crucially, both frames have vertical droppers and wide enough spacing for an 8 speed cassette.

So, the question is, is this necessary, or is there a reliable way to get the axle straight in the frame?

 

[Ming the Merciless]

This might be a daft question, but axle not too long for the dropouts?

 

[Andy in Germany]

This might be a daft question, but axle not too long for the dropouts?

I see the point: I could remove a spacer and use a shorter axle: it's a QR axle though.

Also, the axle not fitting straight in the dropper is a more serious issue.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I see the point: I could remove a spacer and use a shorter axle: it's a QR axle though.

Also, the axle not fitting straight in the dropper is a more serious issue.

Might need photo but replacement QR axles are cheap. But if it extends beyond the dropouts, then you won’t be able cam the QR properly to hold the wheel in place under load. Saw this with a 1990s tandem I sometimes ride with a blind friend.

 

[Mike Ayling]

Today I happened to be at work, so I decided to swap the cassette on my touring bike: The 11 tooth gear had (once again) worn down long before anything else. I dropped the back wheel, cassette off, new cassette on, no worries.

The gears didn't work. Eventually found the wheel wasn't straight in the horizontal dropout (I'd checked the hanger, mech, and dropper were all as they should be). Furthermore, it proved pretty much impossible to straighten it out: the dropouts seem scratched and the wheel jumps between the scratches; just pulling the axle back to the limit results in a wonky wheel.

This was a conversion from a 26" wheeled mountain bike, built with my son some years ago when I had less experience working with bikes. These Horizontal dropouts have always given me some trouble: the chain stays are built for a 6 or 7 speed gear block, and are a little too tight for an 8 speed cassette. Apart from that I had to replace the forks because they were not straight, and the whole bike does feel a little small. Now, even if I get the axle straight, if I have to remove the wheel, it seems impossible to get it back in place accurately without a bike stand.

Now I've got a couple of options for frames: one is a rather lovely lugged 80's/90's Chromoly lugged steel frame, and the other is in the remains of a VSF Fahrradmanufaktur T400. Either would probably work well, and I have someone willing to solder the lugs on for the main bar gear levers. Crucially, both frames have vertical droppers and wide enough spacing for an 8 speed cassette.

So, the question is, is this necessary, or is there a reliable way to get the axle straight in the frame?

Have you tried tug nuts for the horizontal dropouts?

 

[MontyVeda]

Have you tried tug nuts for the horizontal dropouts?

exactly what i was thinking... not that I've seen them since my BMX days.

 

[Punkawallah]

If the drop outs are damaged, you could try drop out spacers to see if it sorts the slipping problem:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/374538821701

But if you have a replacement frame to hand, I’d be inclined to bite the bullet and swap it over. By the time you have finished faffing on with the old frame, you could have the job done.
Good luck!

 

[Andy in Germany]

Might need photo but replacement QR axles are cheap. But if it extends beyond the dropouts, then you won’t be able cam the QR properly to hold the wheel in place under load. Saw this with a 1990s tandem I sometimes ride with a blind friend.

The frame currently needs to be opened out about 3-4mm to put the wheel in. Theoretically a shorter axle and a shorter spacer on the non-drive side would resolve the problem, but wouldn't that mean the wheel was no longer central to the axle?

 

[Andy in Germany]

Have you tried tug nuts for the horizontal dropouts?

That's a possible short term solution, if I can get them to fit the dropouts and work with the QR skewer. I'll have a look next week.

 

[Andy in Germany]

Have you tried tug nuts for the horizontal dropouts?

exactly what i was thinking... not that I've seen them since my BMX days.

Also, from what we could see, the problem was that the dropouts didn't allow the axle to sit straight at the end point.tug nuts can help compensate for this but only to a point.

 

[Mike Ayling]

The frame currently needs to be opened out about 3-4mm to put the wheel in. Theoretically a shorter axle and a shorter spacer on the non-drive side would resolve the problem, but wouldn't that mean the wheel was no longer central to the axle?

Dish the wheel?

 

[Andy in Germany]

If the drop outs are damaged, you could try drop out spacers to see if it sorts the slipping problem:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/374538821701

I wondered about that too, but apart from not having a hole in the dropout to take the screw, you still have the fundamental problem that the dropouts themselves apparently aren't straight. This may be a bit of muck in the dropouts: we didn't have time to check, but it also seems to be a recurring problem.

But if you have a replacement frame to hand, I’d be inclined to bite the bullet and swap it over. By the time you have finished faffing on with the old frame, you could have the job done.
Good luck!

That's my thought too, especially as the replacement frames will be at most 10€ and probably free.

Also I enjoy the process of refurbishing and painting an old frame.

 

[Illaveago]

The main question to me is are the other frames nice bikes? If so I would rather go with them.

 

[Andy in Germany]

Dish the wheel?

I suppose that would theoretically be an excellent "learning project" as I'm supposed to be getting qualified for this sort of thing, but it's also going in the direction @Punkawallah speaks of: a never ending process of more adjustments and fiddling to fit a frame that may not really be fit for purpose. When I have to replace the wheel, it means I have to build another wheel from scratch, change the axle in the hub et c...

 

[Andy in Germany]

The main question to me is are the other frames nice bikes? If so I would rather go with them.

I'll take pictures and let you decide. The Japanese one is a very pretty lugged chromoly frame, while the other is from a VSF Fahrradmanufaktur T400; these are chromoly frames have a very good reputation in Germany and are much beloved of hard core adventure cyclists.

Both are almost certainly better than the frame I'm using now, but because of the sentimental value of this frame I'm hesitating.

Rest assured the current frame won't be thrown away; more likely it will be repainted and repurposed in some way, probably as decoration in my flat.