Ideas to making cycling safer in London and towns and cities up and down the land....

[Little yellow Brompton]

Perhaps the answer is to come at this from a slightly different direction.

I suggest that we could halve the size of HGVs allowed on Britain's roads. Move freight to the railways and then have it delivered by van sized vehicles (driven by drivers trained to current HGVS standards) from local distribution depots.

This would obviously put up the price of goods, on the other hand it would create employment and encourage retailers to try and locate local produce rather than ship stuff half way round the the world.

TyT

Dr Beeching I presume?

 

[Titan yer tummy]

Dr Beeching I presume?

Que?

(the site is driving me nuts today!!)

 

[Red Light]

[QUOTE 1648128, member: 3143"]How does the above contribute towards ''The standard of lorry driving'' which is what I originally quoted you on? As far as I can see you've a couple of cases where quite rightly the driver has been imprisioned, touched on that in ''most cases, the driver is arrested'' (which is standard practise does not mean the driver is guilty. And posted an article about an operation that is 4 years old.[/quote]

Driving that results in 10-30 times higher death rates than for other driver groups in London, 40% breaching their driving hours, 17% driving on the phone, 17% driving uninsured, 8% driving without an operators license and you can't see what it has to do with driving standards. URA lorry driver in London AICMFP.

As for the rest, plenty of others have been found guilty, I just chose the most egregious cases. And as for the spot checks being 4 years old have you any evidence that anything has changed since to make them invalid?

 

[brokenflipflop]

In my humble opinion, I see cars and lorries hitting cars and lorries and by and large due to being in such vehicles with modern safety devices (airbags, crumple zones etc) most people get out relatively unscathed. Now apply the same logic to a little pushbike darting in and out of the traffic and it stands to reason there is going to be collisions leading to deaths/serious injury. I drive a bloody big white van and there are people out there who can't see me !! The one and only way to reduce these deaths significantly is to completely separate cyclists from motor vehicles. In my opinion, as a WVM and a cyclist, imposing more severe sentences for poor drivers who cause accidents will have absolutely no effect whatsoever - motorists minds are never on the safety of cyclists or in many cases anyone else. People are complacent, selfish and they have deadlines and kids to pick up and there are millions of people like that in vehicles every day. The only answer is everyone get about in a hummer or like I said, bikes and vehicles have to be separated.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

In my humble opinion, I see cars and lorries hitting cars and lorries and by and large due to being in such vehicles with modern safety devices (airbags, crumple zones etc) most people get out relatively unscathed. Now apply the same logic to a little pushbike darting in and out of the traffic and it stands to reason there is going to be collisions leading to deaths/serious injury. I drive a bloody big white van and there are people out there who can't see me !! The one and only way to reduce these deaths significantly is to completely separate cyclists from motor vehicles. In my opinion, as a WVM and a cyclist, imposing more severe sentences for poor drivers who cause accidents will have absolutely no effect whatsoever - motorists minds are never on the safety of cyclists or in many cases anyone else. People are complacent, selfish and they have deadlines and kids to pick up and there are millions of people like that in vehicles every day. The only answer is everyone get about in a hummer or like I said, bikes and vehicles have to be separated.

Get those pesky pedestrians out of the feckin' way too while you are about it.

If there was an unlike button I'd hit it. There are good reasons for segregation. There are bad ones. Guess which is which?

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

Que?

(the site is driving me nuts today!!)

The Dr. Beeching, made the presumtion that, when he cut feeder lines and stations, passengers and goods would travel by road to the next station/ line and then transfer to Rail , reversing the transfer at the other end. Goods would have been "handled" 6 times, compared with the twice on whole rail or whole road routes. What happened was that once the passengers/goods were on the road they stayed there. I'm not saying that your solution hasn't merit, but for it to work it needs to be thought of not just in terms of cost/profit ( That was Beeching's error) , or rather it should also externalise the costs and also take into account the social costs.

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

. URA lorry driver in London AICMFP.

?

I thought that was obvious some time ago?

 

[Bicycle]

I cycle and I have children who cycle. I have something invested in the survival of my children, but in truth I quite like things as they are on UK roads. They could be better, but life does tend to kill people one way or another.

I abhor the notion of separating cycle and motorised traffic. I've been over a couple of bonnets and was recently flipped off when an aged driver pulled out and swept my rear wheel away. A bizarre but nonetheless painful collision. I do not write from behind a pain-free veil immunity to traffic.

If I didn't like things as they are, I wouldn't cycle. I do like it.

If I were to change anything, I might go for more training about allowing for other road users as a part of standard UK driver training and testing. I'd also like to see some cyclists having a little more nous about the road, although most seem pretty good.

Apart from that, not much.

 

[brokenflipflop]

Get those pesky pedestrians out of the feckin' way too while you are about it.

If there was an unlike button I'd hit it. There are good reasons for segregation. There are bad ones. Guess which is which?

I don't know. Enlighten me.

 

[brokenflipflop]

When I say segregation I mean totally separate. Not cycle lanes - cycle roads that aren't shared. It wont happen of course but deaths will continue as long as cycles and cars are on the road as sure as eggs are eggs and no amount of training/laws/sentences/education will change that. Most tattooed, cross-eyed, boneheads who learn to drive at 17 drive at the speed limit. As soon as they pass their test they drive their Subaru Impreza's at ridiculous speeds. Factor in people who aren't very good at judging distances (most women), people with poor eyesight, complacent drivers (Lorries, taxi drivers, WVM), foreigners who passed their tests in Nairobi and Delhi and people who simply make the occasional mistake it's a mystery things aren't worse than they already are.

 

[Bicycle]

When I say segregation I mean totally separate. Not cycle lanes - cycle roads that aren't shared. It wont happen of course but deaths will continue as long as cycles and cars are on the road as sure as eggs are eggs and no amount of training/laws/sentences/education will change that. Most tattooed, cross-eyed, boneheads who learn to drive at 17 drive at the speed limit. As soon as they pass their test they drive their Subaru Impreza's at ridiculous speeds. Factor in people who aren't very good at judging distances (most women), people with poor eyesight, complacent drivers (Lorries, taxi drivers, WVM), foreigners who passed their tests in Nairobi and Delhi and people who simply make the occasional mistake it's a mystery things aren't worse than they already are.

Wow!!

This post blows me away. I feel sure it is tongue-in-cheek. It just has to be.

Doesn't it?

 

[MacB]

OK that's enough for me.

but there's so much more, think of what you could be missing

 

[brokenflipflop]

It's not that radical an opinion, Unless you read the Guardian of course.

 

[Bicycle]

It's not that radical an opinion, Unless you read the Guardian of course.

It takes one to know one, on that basis I have to say I suspect that Trollery is at large here.

All of the types you define (apart from the Subaru bit) are just as likely to ride bicycles.

I have never heard before that women are poor judges of distance. One or two women have told me that occasional difficulties with judging smaller distances are attributable to having spent much of their adult life being told that something 4" long is 7" long. This sad truth apart, women make far fewer motor insurance claims.

I fear your sweeping and inaccurate generalisations may have killed what could have been quite an interesting thread.

But that's half the fun of an online forum.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I don't know. Enlighten me.

When I say segregation I mean totally separate. Not cycle lanes - cycle roads that aren't shared. It wont happen of course but deaths will continue as long as cycles and cars are on the road as sure as eggs are eggs and no amount of training/laws/sentences/education will change that. Most tattooed, cross-eyed, boneheads who learn to drive at 17 drive at the speed limit. As soon as they pass their test they drive their Subaru Impreza's at ridiculous speeds. Factor in people who aren't very good at judging distances (most women), people with poor eyesight, complacent drivers (Lorries, taxi drivers, WVM), foreigners who passed their tests in Nairobi and Delhi and people who simply make the occasional mistake it's a mystery things aren't worse than they already are.

My friend, the second quote suggests you are utterly beyond enlightenment!