IGH on hilly commutes

[confusedcyclist]

Living in Leeds, but commuting to Bradford I have to contend with some fair hills each way, there's no escaping them, long and relentless.

I don't know if getting older means I becoming more luddite, rejecting fancy pants 11 speed £500 groupsets and carbon frames in favour of a steel frame and carradice saddle bag, but I find myself considering an Internal Gear Hub (IGH) setup on the daily commuter. I like the idea of the simplicity of a fixed speed, but found coasting down hills and grinding up hills a bit annoying, therefore they don't make great commuting bikes round these parts. So, that got me thinking about a 3, 5 or 8 speed IGH.


Are they durable and reliable? And any thoughts and experiences on using on a utilitarian bike on the hills? I imagine I'll be spinning out down the hills still, but with a bit less grinding up them, I might be able to simplify the commuter somewhat. I'm not afraid of a wheel rebuild, or using used components, so cost is not a great concern.

 

[mjr]

I think I summarised the durability by pointing out that there are 80-year-old Sturmey Archer 3 speed hubs still running (and you can get most of the spares still), while it's a bit early to say about the Shimano 7, 8 and 11 or Sturmey 8s, as they've only been around a decade or two yet. Rohloffs are legendary but you pay for that.

To be fair, they're not all that good. The Shimano 333s have a poor reputation and relatively few survive, while reports of Sturmey 5s are mixed and assert there are quirks.

 

[mjr]

As for hills... I get up anything up to car park or ferry ramp max steepness fine with 3 gears at 42, 56 and 75" if the bike's near-unladen and I'm feeling OK. I think I'd want lower gears if doing much more than 6% for long often but I don't do that living in Norfolk. Walking (ok, limping ) for a bit isn't the end of the world anyway.

 

[confusedcyclist]

Thanks @mjr

 

[Pale Rider]

I suspect you might find a three speed a bit limiting in terms of range.

Shimano eight speed hubs seem to be more durable than the 11 speed.

The eight speed hubs are also cheaper, so that's what I would go for.

Gearing, of course, partly depends on the cogs at either end.

But as a general rule, a lot of pre-built hub gear bikes seem to lack a low, spinning, first gear.

My Alfine 11 was like that, but top was close to 30mph even at my modest cadence.

Doing a self build, I would focus on getting the first gear I wanted and let the higher ones look after themselves.

There's some technical stuff about the sprocket range Shimano hubs can handle, but exceeding that a bit doesn't appear to cause problems.

 

[confusedcyclist]

I'm going to view a second hand fixedspeed bike from gumtree this evening (one of these actually), with a bit of luck I can grab the bike for £50-60, I then plan on getting one of these vintage hubs into the frame! I've got loads of odds and ends in the garage to upgrade the crappy components, only thing is I may need a new rim to build around the hub.

This is going to be for a bit of fun, probably respray the frame, chuck my spare 5700 brake callipers on there, it probably not a serious commuter. I hope to get the project under £80, may just use it for runs to the shops/pub etc, and something I can just leave unlocked round the back of the house without the hassle of getting the best bikes out. If I like it, I may consider getting a nexus 8 for my next serious frame build, or installing one on my existing Surly Straggler.

 

[John_S]

Hi confusedcyclist,

My bike is a Genesis Day One Alfine 8 (2014) which has a Shimano Alfine 8 IGH.

Like mjr I also live in Norfolk and so luckily i don't have to contend with long & relentless hills. However my commute isn't pan flat and it does contain a couple of short sharp hills which are short in duration say 2 & a half minutes (I'm not that fast) to climb but one includes ramps of 14 per cent and the other 12 per cent at their steepest points (we'll that's according to the Garmin guestimates anyway because I've not worked out what the climb gradients are myself).

Anyway I don't have a problem with using an IGH with the range that they offer on my commute and I certainly prefer it versus a derailleur bike from a cleaning & maintenance perspective on my year round all weathers commute.

However one thing to note is the Alfine hub (and perhaps others but this is the only I have personal experience of) does require a decent set up when it comes to the gear cable. It needs to be set up just right and maintained in good condition otherwise there's a fair chance that you'll have slipping gears and shifting issues. But then I suppose that isn't a million miles different from any other gear system that uses a cable to shift.

Good luck getting your build sorted.

John

 

[mjr]

However one thing to note is the Alfine hub (and perhaps others but this is the only I have personal experience of) does require a decent set up when it comes to the gear cable. It needs to be set up just right and maintained in good condition otherwise there's a fair chance that you'll have slipping gears and shifting issues.

I've a little more experience but not much but I think all hub gears are similar are in that regard: if it slips or sticks when shifting, stop and fix it at the earliest opportunity, else you could do some mischief to the innards (or in the case of the old Sturmey Archer AW hubs that have a neutral, mischief to your out'ards if it slips from high to neutral under load ). While a derailleur with a misadjusted cable will refuse to shift or autoshift or sound nasty, some hubs may sometimes engage two gears or half of one and grind their smaller teeth.

Though there are exceptions, the more gears it's got, the more sensitive it seems to be to misadjustment. Shimano hub yellow alignment blobs/lines seem less consistently in the correct place than SA's way of lining up bits of metal - but if someone's guessed and fitted an incorrect spare part to an SA, the metal won't line up either!

I think that and the difficulty of visual examination (you can still do it, but it requires at least spanners to take the gears out of the hub) are the main drawbacks of hubs, but they're far outweighed by the benefits of easier use and maintenance (including the side effects of thicker chain further up out of the road dirt) and more consistent efficiency.

 

[confusedcyclist]

Thanks all for the input. The bike was a rust bucket. Seized seatpost, worn cogs, worn chain, rusty frame, worn headset. I offered a fiver for it, the seller was lucky to get any offer! It seemed to me they were waiting for a greater fool to come along and pay full whack, so I walked. IGH project on hold until I find a suitable frame.

 

[mjr]

View: https://twitter.com/cocteautriplets/status/978653421942210560?s=19

4 or 5 days early there...

 

[confusedcyclist]

Yes they really are a feat of engineering!

 

[Crankarm]

Thanks all for the input. The bike was a rust bucket. Seized seatpost, worn cogs, worn chain, rusty frame, worn headset. I offered a fiver for it, the seller was lucky to get any offer! It seemed to me they were waiting for a greater fool to come along and pay full whack, so I walked. IGH project on hold until I find a suitable frame.

You stated that cost was not a great concern but I think it is very much a concern for you if you went to look at a crappy £50-60 bike. If cost is genuinely not an issue then why not buy a Rohloff hub and build your bike around it? You get what you pay for. I have ridden my bike fully loaded with touring gear up 20% and steeper slopes. The Rohloff hub is legendary for a reason. It is good. Buying it has to be one of the best cycling purchases I have made and now I have the bike I have been searching for for many years I shall keep and ride it until I die. Other IHGs may be ok but I doubt they have the reliability of the Rohloff. It's gears have never ever slipped once. This may be because the cable shift does not actually change the gear, this is done inside the hub. And you need disc brakes as well.

 

[mjr]

It's gears have never ever slipped once. This may be because the cable shift does not actually change the gear, this is done inside the hub. And you need disc brakes.

How does the hub know what gear to change into? Wireless? Telepathy? Is the cable really purely cosmetic?

And no-one needs disc brakes

 

[Crankarm]

How does the hub know what gear to change into? Wireless? Telepathy? Is the cable really purely cosmetic?

And no-one needs disc brakes

Luddite alert, Luddite alert!

I direct you to the Rohloff website. https://www.rohloff.de/en/experience/technology-in-detail/

 

[Crankarm]

I've a little more experience but not much but I think all hub gears are similar are in that regard: if it slips or sticks when shifting, stop and fix it at the earliest opportunity, else you could do some mischief to the innards (or in the case of the old Sturmey Archer AW hubs that have a neutral, mischief to your out'ards if it slips from high to neutral under load ). While a derailleur with a misadjusted cable will refuse to shift or autoshift or sound nasty, some hubs may sometimes engage two gears or half of one and grind their smaller teeth.

Though there are exceptions, the more gears it's got, the more sensitive it seems to be to misadjustment. Shimano hub yellow alignment blobs/lines seem less consistently in the correct place than SA's way of lining up bits of metal - but if someone's guessed and fitted an incorrect spare part to an SA, the metal won't line up either!

I think that and the difficulty of visual examination (you can still do it, but it requires at least spanners to take the gears out of the hub) are the main drawbacks of hubs, but they're far outweighed by the benefits of easier use and maintenance (including the side effects of thicker chain further up out of the road dirt) and more consistent efficiency.

A keyboard expert then .