Improving Touring Bike Brakes - Cantis to Mini V conversion

[marknotgeorge]

I also needed a couple of adjustable noodles to complete the job:
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/cables/tektro-91712-v-brake-lead-pipe-with-adjuster-90-deg/

I noticed that the manual for the Tektro V-brakes supplied with my new bike back in January said that a front brake on the right lever needed a 135 degree noodle, rather than the 90 degree one that was on mine. I saw one on clearance for a couple of quid, and gave it a go. It seems to give a better cable line across the front, clearing the fork crown mounted light better. It's probably a better line for cable operation, too. Just food for thought.

 

[auww08]

Hello Dirk & others

I stumbled upon this post via a google search and am hoping people will be able to help me by answering a few questions about the post and conversion to mini v brakes?

I own a 2011 Ridgeback panorama world tour. See link below
http://www.cyclingweekly.com/reviews/touringaudax-bikes/bike-test-ridgeback-panorama-1249-99

& have experienced the same problems as Dirk and others with the Shimano BR CX50 cantilever brakes. See link below https://www.google.com/search?safe=......0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.BfvfSn50gPo

The bike was fitted with e.g. squealing brakes and poor braking power

I’ve been milling over converting the brakes for years. As this will be the 1st year I don’t tour on my bike, I’m going to strip it down; have it shot blasted and powder coated as it starting to rust in places and then re build it whilst converting the cantilever brakes to mini v brakes

Questions wise, my bike is a Medium 56cm bike. Can Dirk and others please advise if the bikes frame size makes any difference to the suitability of the tektro 926al brakes. See link below
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/...8_1523956565_442eeae690835902b4f5c794faf6994b

Or the brake lead pipe? See link below
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/cables/tektro-91712-v-brake-lead-pipe-with-adjuster-90-deg/

Rims wise, when I tour I fit a set of Rigida Sputnik wheels (just used for touring as opposed to the Mavic wheels I use for my daily commute) which SJS cycles advised me have a 19mm internal width so can be used with a wide range of tyres from 32mm up to 60mm. See link below
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/wheelsw...putnik-rims-with-shimano-deore-hubs-in-black/

Tyres wise I tour with a set of Schwalbe marathon plus 700c * 32mm tyres. See link below
https://www.google.com/search?q=Schwalbe+marathon+plus+700c+*+32mm&safe=active&gws_rd=ssl

It'll be my first strip down and rebuild of a bike so I'm not exactly highly experienced in bike building or brake conversion so responses and assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks you in advance.

Best wishes

Lee

 

[KneesUp]

Mini Vs don't have the clearance if you want to fit knobbly tyres - my 'made tourer' (old mountain bike) has cantis because I have the guards mounted to give enough clearance for knobblies because it is a do it all bike, and as such wears knobblies in the snow and if I go on trails with the kid - possible with cantis but not mini Vs. Unfortunately this means the mudgaurds looks very badly fitted most of the time, when the bike is on slicks, but I can live with that!

Full size Vs need a different cable pull so don't work with 'brifters' which is why they're not fitted as standard, but that said there is no reason a touring bike needs them, bar ends are lovely

 

[Dirk]

Mini V brakes cleared the standard mudguards on my Ridgeback so I would have thought that any tyre that fits in the mudguard would also be OK.

 

[KneesUp]

Mini V brakes cleared the standard mudguards on my Ridgeback so I would have thought that any tyre that fits in the mudguard would also be OK.

True, but I was more addressing the question as to why cantis are used in general - they allow for large clearances whilst still having the same pull as side pull brakes. And they're cheap and almost impossible to break.

This now begs the question............why do manufacturers of touring bikes insist on fitting sub standard brakes? I know cantis are 'traditional' (whatever that means), but if a cheaper, better alternative is available - why not fit it as standard?

 

[GuyBoden]

I adjust the "Yoke" cable, so it's just above the mudguard and adjust the brake blocks, so that they are very close to the rims. This improved my canti's braking dramatically.

Ritchley brake pads work for me, the blue or red ones.

 

[Gravity Aided]

Full size Vs need a different cable pull so don't work with 'brifters' which is why they're not fitted as standard, but that said there is no reason a touring bike needs them, bar ends are lovely

https://problemsolversbike.com/products/brakes/travel_agents_-_6416
Try Travel Agents, they can help. Cost about $20 USD.

 

[raleighnut]

Hello Dirk & others

I stumbled upon this post via a google search and am hoping people will be able to help me by answering a few questions about the post and conversion to mini v brakes?

I own a 2011 Ridgeback panorama world tour. See link below
http://www.cyclingweekly.com/reviews/touringaudax-bikes/bike-test-ridgeback-panorama-1249-99

& have experienced the same problems as Dirk and others with the Shimano BR CX50 cantilever brakes. See link below https://www.google.com/search?safe=......0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.BfvfSn50gPo

The bike was fitted with e.g. squealing brakes and poor braking power

I’ve been milling over converting the brakes for years. As this will be the 1st year I don’t tour on my bike, I’m going to strip it down; have it shot blasted and powder coated as it starting to rust in places and then re build it whilst converting the cantilever brakes to mini v brakes

Questions wise, my bike is a Medium 56cm bike. Can Dirk and others please advise if the bikes frame size makes any difference to the suitability of the tektro 926al brakes. See link below
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/...8_1523956565_442eeae690835902b4f5c794faf6994b

Or the brake lead pipe? See link below
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/cables/tektro-91712-v-brake-lead-pipe-with-adjuster-90-deg/

Rims wise, when I tour I fit a set of Rigida Sputnik wheels (just used for touring as opposed to the Mavic wheels I use for my daily commute) which SJS cycles advised me have a 19mm internal width so can be used with a wide range of tyres from 32mm up to 60mm. See link below
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/wheelsw...putnik-rims-with-shimano-deore-hubs-in-black/

Tyres wise I tour with a set of Schwalbe marathon plus 700c * 32mm tyres. See link below
https://www.google.com/search?q=Schwalbe+marathon+plus+700c+*+32mm&safe=active&gws_rd=ssl

It'll be my first strip down and rebuild of a bike so I'm not exactly highly experienced in bike building or brake conversion so responses and assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks you in advance.

Best wishes

Lee View attachment 404708 View attachment 404709 View attachment 404710 View attachment 404711 View attachment 404712

Nice bike

You may have clearance issues with big tyres and 'mini Vs' as they pivot above the tyres, have you tried 'toeing in' the brake pads to stop judder/squeal though.

 

[auww08]

Nice bike

You may have clearance issues with big tyres and 'mini Vs' as they pivot above the tyres, have you tried 'toeing in' the brake pads to stop judder/squeal though.

Hi, yes tried toeing in, I use schwalbe marathon plus 700c*32mm . have bought the brakes used by the OP, just waiting for brake lead pipe to arrive

 

[PpPete]

The original style of cantis (Shimano BR-AT50 as an example) were a significant improvement over what had gone before (single pivot side-pull and centre pull).
Then some chump got worried about product liability issues if they were mis-installed, or a one in a million yoke or cable failure which could drop the straddle cable onto a tyre - and if it was front & knobbly that would project the rider over the handlebars. There were other solutions to that, but no, they changed the design to make the brakes less effective ! The Onyx design mentioned in the OP is particularly poor.

My '87 Galaxy runs on the original wide-style cantis, and the braking is good even heavily loaded, with Kool-Stop Salmons it's quite acceptable even in the wet.
You can get a slight improvement for the rear brake with Pedersen design cantis like the SunTour SE [SJS still selling-off NOS for £5] but they are a bit fiddly to install** and you MUST NOT fit as a front brake.

** unless you actually read the instructions DAMHIKT !

 

[Pedropete]

https://problemsolversbike.com/products/brakes/travel_agents_-_6416
Try Travel Agents, they can help. Cost about $20 USD.

They certainly can. Had issues with cantis on an old CX bike I ran as a general hack for years. Tried lots of different blocks, toe-in/out, surface prep... the lot. Nothing worked. Tried mini-vs and only a marginal improvement. Ended up with some XT Vs pulled by the existing Ultegra brifters via a travel agent ratio changer. Worked beautifully - powerful, good modulation, and quiet. Oh god, the quiet!

V-brakes & travel agent on CX bike

• Pedropete
• 29 Apr 2018

Shimano XT V-brakes run with STI brifters via a Problem Solvers ‘Travel Agent’ ratio changer...

XT V-brakes with Dura-ace brifters via travel agent -

• Pedropete
• 29 Apr 2018

 

[curzons246]

One word of warning if you decide to choose to swap cantilever for mini V. The pivots on my front fork are 52mm center to center. This is to narrow to work with the Tektro rx1s I purchased. The rear pivots are 65mm and the brakes set up a treat. Cheers Bill

 

[palinurus]

Try changing the brake blocks first, I'm using Tektro Canti's on my cross-check but switched the blocks to Kool Stops

Also some canti brakes will take a V-brake style pad which allows for a lot of choice, I have a bike with Avid Shorty 4's and I find the braking is pretty good, at least as good as the mini Vs on Ms P's Kaffenback. The brake arms are designed to be pretty stiff which probably helps. The picture is a set of Shorty 6s but they are a similar design to the ones I have.

 

[palinurus]

Also some canti brakes will take a V-brake style pad which allows for a lot of choice, I have a bike with Avid Shorty 4's and I find the braking is pretty good, at least as good as the mini Vs on Ms P's Kaffenback.

They do go through periods of squealing though and need tinkering with toe-in to quieten them (a business card between the block and the rim while tightening the brake pads generally does it)

 

[Vantage]

Tried and failed to get the Oryx's to deliver a reasonable amount of stopping power going through various pads and differing straddle cable types, positions and gizmos. Gave up.
Tried mini V's. The front just about had enough clearance over the mudguard to not rub but I ended up having to cut a section out of the rear guard for the cable. It looked ugly and as much as I appreciated the extra bit of power, I like my bike to look nice. I have to look at it every day.
Back to the Oryx's for a while and then I had my stroke which robbed me of considerable hand/grip strength.
So full size V brakes were fitted and for a short time, flat bars with levers that worked.
The drop bars were refitted later and a pair of the aforementioned problem solvers travel agents. A fair bit of braking power is lost through using these and the risk of cables breaking due to the tight radius they are wound around increases, but, I now have perfectly capable brakes. Problem Solvers solved the problem