Indicators should be banned, to improve road safety.

[atbman]

I take the view that courtesy has no relevance to road safety.

If someone behaves courteously towards you, they have demonstrated their awareness of your existence and intended actions. If they're wrong about your intended actions, you can indicate (electrically, facially or handwise) what you wish to do.

This is particularly noticeable on High St., Morley, where there is often parking on both sides. People courteously flashing you thro' make your decision making safer

 

[Arfcollins]

If someone behaves courteously towards you, they have demonstrated their awareness of your existence and intended actions. If they're wrong about your intended actions, you can indicate (electrically, facially or handwise) what you wish to do.

This is particularly noticeable on High St., Morley, where there is often parking on both sides. People courteously flashing you thro' make your decision making safer

But conversely, the courteous but unobservant driver in slow traffic may flash a right turning driver to pull across in front, who then collides with a cyclist coming up the bus lane. I've seen the videos here of that happening. So who benefitted from that courtesy?

 

[Arfcollins]

On the other hand, if you signal pretty much automatically, as I do, you have saved yourself unnecessary decision making and free your mind up to observe the traffic conditions, while making sure that anyone whose behaviour you may not have correctly analysed is aware of your inentions

To turn into my street you take a right-angled left off the main road. 10 yards past it is another left turn that forks off the main road. Many drivers indicate left before they reach my street and then go past it to take the left fork. Not indicating is safer. A mile away is a large 2 laned and fast roundabout. Many drivers start to indicate for their exit as they are approaching the exit before theirs. Not indicating is safer.
In both cases the indicating does not accurately reflect the driver's intentions and so is pointless.

 

[Arfcollins]

Absolutely! It drives me mad when you wait to cross traffic and the complete buffoon stops or turns off without signalling before they reach you.

But probably wouldn't drive you as mad as the buffoon who is signalling left and then ploughs straight through you as you pull out, cos he couldn't hear his uncancelled indicator over his car stereo.

 

[Arfcollins]

I am another that always indicates. I've even been know to indicate before a left bend, but it's usually where there is the choice of going straight on into a side road like here. I do it automatically. But I also use my mirrors and check around me automatically too.
Here is another indicating dilema. I want to go straight on up the road towards Donisthorpe (follow the road in street veiw). I don't indicate automatically but wait till I've passed the turn into the country park. I'm constantly checking for other road users but still indicate even if I don't see anyone, just in case.

"

No dilemma there, I think that is perfectly unambiguous and safe indicating because you are waiting until the right time to do it.

 

[Arfcollins]

Is it too much to ask that people learn to indicate AND be observant at the same time? I did my Police driving course in 1986 when I was still serving with them. We were taught to indicate whether or not you could actually see someone who would benefit from it. The theory is that you don't know at what point someone (pedestrian, cyclist, or driver) is going to appear. Case in point; you are approaching a roundabout and intend to turn left but don't bother indicating because there is no-one to indicate to. Meantime I am approaching the roundabout from your left (on the road you are about to turn into), unseen because of buildings, bushes or whatever. I get to the roundabout just before you and have to stop to give way to you approaching from my right, because you are not indicating and I have to assume you are going straight on. You then perform a left turn and I call you a few names.......

I can see how having to stop like that would be an inconvenience, but personally I wouldn't pull out onto a roundabout in front of a left indicating driver unless there was enough safe space to do it no matter what his intentions were. And if the space is large enough to for me to pull out safely, it doesn't matter if the other guy is indicating or not.

 

[the snail]

I can see how having to stop like that would be an inconvenience, but personally I wouldn't pull out onto a roundabout in front of a left indicating driver unless there was enough safe space to do it no matter what his intentions were. And if the space is large enough to for me to pull out safely, it doesn't matter if the other guy is indicating or not.

Well I have to cross a rab every day on foot/bike, and due to drivers being too lazy to indicate, I have two choices: either wait all day for a gap that's safe to cross, or try and mind-read what the cars are going to do and dart across the road risking life and limb. It's not that hard to indicate, all you've got to do is flick that little lever, if you're lucky it'll even turn itself off. But no, that's too much trouble for most folk it seems. self-gratification artists.

 

[doug]

To turn into my street you take a right-angled left off the main road. 10 yards past it is another left turn that forks off the main road. Many drivers indicate left before they reach my street and then go past it to take the left fork. Not indicating is safer. A mile away is a large 2 laned and fast roundabout. Many drivers start to indicate for their exit as they are approaching the exit before theirs. Not indicating is safer.
In both cases the indicating does not accurately reflect the driver's intentions and so is pointless.

That is a false dichotomy - you are implying that the only possibilities are indicating wrongly or not indicating at all. The third and best option is to indicate correctly, which sounds perfectly feasible in those scenarios - I know not enough people will do it though !

 

[Francesca]

errrmmm, how about pedestrians? They need to see were a car is turning in order to cross a road safetly, wouldnt you agree?

 

[Kestevan]

errrmmm, how about pedestrians? They need to see were a car is turning in order to cross a road safetly, wouldnt you agree?

No - I've taught my kids that the only thing a flashing yellow light on a car means, is that the bulb in the indicator is working. It doesnt mean the cars going to turn, and stepping out in front of it believing it will may well be the last assumption you ever make.

Remember, all drivers are either asleep or blind, psychotic and actively trying to kill you..... trust no-one.

 

[BentMikey]

errrmmm, how about pedestrians? They need to see were a car is turning in order to cross a road safetly, wouldnt you agree?

Are pedestrians not road users that can benefit from signalling? Their presence is exactly the sort of thing that should prompt indication.

 

[Arfcollins]

Are pedestrians not road users that can benefit from signalling? Their presence is exactly the sort of thing that should prompt indication.

I think Kestevan has it right. I also told my sons when they were learning to drive to assume everyone on the road is an idiot and you are more likely to survive. What is the benefit that yiou think pedestrians get from drivers indicating vs. not indicating.

 

[Boris Bajic]

I am a keen driver and cyclist. In my youth I was also a keen motorcyclist.

I signal a lot. I like to be given a clue what other road users are planning to do and I like to return the courtesy.

Of course there are complete turnips out there, but they are relatively few.

There are many ways to tell which way a car, bicycle or motorcycle might be about to turn or move, but among the clearest signals in most circumstances is the indicator. Just because indicators can be poorll employed or unused, doesn't mean they should be removed. I too was taught not to trust them. I taught my eldest (now a driver) likewise. All my children have a healthy respect for the absentmindedly-left-on indicator, as they are all keen cyclists.

I live in the Welsh Marches, where use of the indicator is seldom used until after the turn is made.

But... How that leads us to a proposition that they ought to be banned I do not know.

In the days when cafe racers were what fixies are now, I removed the indicators from a bike and put clip-ons on the fork legs... but that was youth and stupidity at work.

If cars today had no indicators, somebody would win themselves an OBE by inventing them.

 

[BentMikey]

I think Kestevan has it right. I also told my sons when they were learning to drive to assume everyone on the road is an idiot and you are more likely to survive. What is the benefit that yiou think pedestrians get from drivers indicating vs. not indicating.

The obvious example is when pedestrians decide whether or not to cross a side road. It gives them a decision point on whether to decide to wait or cross, it aids that process of negotiation we all use every day on the roads.

Largely, I'm also with Kestevan, I'm very untrusting of indicators on motor vehicles as they're too easily left indicating when the turn is long gone. I'd be a little bit more trusting of a cyclist indicating since it takes positive effort to indicate on a bicycle.

 

[Arfcollins]

That is a false dichotomy - you are implying that the only possibilities are indicating wrongly or not indicating at all. The third and best option is to indicate correctly, which sounds perfectly feasible in those scenarios - I know not enough people will do it though !

OK, but I think you are looking only from the viewpoint of the person indicating who, afterall, is the only one who knows what is going to happen. The road-users around him have to make their best guess of this, based on his speed, direction and indicators.
In my local roundabout example it takes less than 3 seconds at 40mph for a car to pass across one exit and on to the one they are taking, about 50 yards. If you were a cyclist watching that car indicating left would you assume it was safe to pull out? Maybe you do, but I don't. And as I do not believe the indicating it is therefore useless and has as much value as no indicating.
In my other example the left fork is about 10 yards on from the sharp left. The only correct indicating would be to do it immediately after the sharp left, which at 40 mph is about half a second before turning. That would be one flash. Who would benefit from this?