Insane bus overtake

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Its clear and precise, you can imagine what has happened without viewing the video and you clearly state the possible consequences (severe) vs the advantage gained (none) for completing the maneuver.

Get it sent and best of luck :thumbsup:
 

Origamist

Legendary Member
Uncle P - there is a charge of "Driving without reasonable consideration" Section 3 RTA 1988 - you might want to flag this up in your correspondence, as you were forced to take avoiding action, inconvenienced and you were left feeling distressed by the incident.


http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/...guidance_on_prosecuting_cases_of_bad_driving/
 

BSRU

A Human Being
Location
Swindon
Personally I have recently stopped mentioning that I have video evidence of an incidents when writing to companies about one of their drivers.
 

benb

Evidence based cyclist
Location
Epsom
Good letter. I'm not sure about the part about the cycle lane. Could you reiterate that you are under no obligation to use it?
 
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Amanda P

Amanda P

Legendary Member
Personally I have recently stopped mentioning that I have video evidence of an incidents when writing to companies about one of their drivers.

Hmm. I don't altogether regret the fact that the video has been up a few days now and has collected a few comments which don't do much for the reputation of First's driver. YouTube are offering to add adverts to the video, so it must have had a few views, too.

Since the evidence is there that makes it clear that, at the least, I did encounter a First Bus at the place described, and that the way it was driven caused me some distress (I'm not normally given to screaming expletives), why not present it?

Given what seems pretty clear evidence of a driving offence having taken place too, I'd like to think the Police might take some action, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
 
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Amanda P

Amanda P

Legendary Member
Good letter. I'm not sure about the part about the cycle lane. Could you reiterate that you are under no obligation to use it?

I could, but this is a bus company I'm writing to - an employer of professional drivers: I shouldn't have to.

On the other hand, if I don't, why mention it at all? I suppose because, if the driver is interviewed, he's likely to argue that I should have been on the cycle path. (I tend to agree that this was a "punishment pass" - but that can only ever be speculation).

The letter includes phone numbers, email and street addresses. If First want to argue with me, they can do so. I don't think they will.

Next thought: strategies for getting beyond the "brush-off reply" I'm likely to get?
 
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Amanda P

Amanda P

Legendary Member
Uncle P - there is a charge of "Driving without reasonable consideration" Section 3 RTA 1988 - you might want to flag this up in your correspondence, as you were forced to take avoiding action, inconvenienced and you were left feeling distressed by the incident.


http://www.cps.gov.u...of_bad_driving/

Many thanks for that.

This is something to mention in a covering letter to NYP that goes with the cc of the First letter to them, perhaps. If I give them the video evidence and point out the possible charges they could bring, I've pretty much done their job for them I should think?

Edited to add: that's a really, really useful link. Why on earth aren't police using this offence to bring easy convictions from all our videos? Cases on a plate, you would have thought!
 

BSRU

A Human Being
Location
Swindon
Hmm. I don't altogether regret the fact that the video has been up a few days now and has collected a few comments which don't do much for the reputation of First's driver. YouTube are offering to add adverts to the video, so it must have had a few views, too.

Since the evidence is there that makes it clear that, at the least, I did encounter a First Bus at the place described, and that the way it was driven caused me some distress (I'm not normally given to screaming expletives), why not present it?

Given what seems pretty clear evidence of a driving offence having taken place too, I'd like to think the Police might take some action, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

I always upload it to YouTube, I only mention the video to the company if needed.
Like I said it is something I have only done with the last two company vehicle incidents, one company dealt with the complaint without needing my video evidence to back up my claims and the other was a taxi company and generally they just don't give a sh1t.
I do not know if it makes any difference not mentioning video evidence but I feel video evidence is my independent witness and to be used only if required.
 

Bigsharn

Veteran
Location
Leeds
601 views to be exact :bravo:

If First give you one of their trademark canned responses, go to their office in York. They have a Managing Director here now (they never for a while) so make an appointment and give him a piece of your mind, that should make them listen.
 
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Amanda P

Amanda P

Legendary Member
Well, I wrote to North Yorkshire Police with the letter above. A couple of weeks went by and I got a letter back from an Inspector, saying that the matter had been delegated to an officer at York and I'd be hearing something.

Eventually, I did get a phone call from an officer from York. After a few more phone calls and emails, the basic text of my letter was put into an official statement, which the officer posted to me for me to sign. He asked me to send a CD copy of the video file back to him along with the signed statement in the prepaid envelope he'd sent. I did this, and it went very quiet for a month or so.

Then I got an email to say that he hadn't recieved the statement and CD. He sent another copy of the statement, I made another copy of the CD and sent them both back. This time, he got them both and emailed to say that he'd passed them on to the decision maker at their Prosecution Team.

Shortly after that, my orignal CD was returned by the Post Office; there wasn't enough postage paid on the prepaid envelope he'd given me!

Anyway, I've now had the following email from him:

In relation to the incident involving you and the bus on Malton Road. The file I submitted and the CCTV has been viewed by the decision maker at our Prosecution Team. He has stated that in his opion the driving standard of the bus driver is poor in that he had to cut in front of you to avoid a collision with the oncoming vehicle. However he has stated that due the fact that there was no collision and you did not have to greatly alter your position provides an element of mitigation. As such he has decided that the incident should be dealt with by me speaking to the driver in the presence of his supervisor and playing the CCTV and allowing the bus company to take whatever action they see fit, rather than instigate formal prosecution proceedures. I am intending to do this in the next few days and then the matter will be closed.



I hope this represents a satisfactory conclusion.



Regards

Thoughts anyone? Particularly anyone with experience in these matters.

My thoughts are that this is a better outcome than nothing, which is what would have happened if I hadn't acted. But there's little point in having traffic laws if, even when there's clear evidence of them having been broken, no real action is taken against the offender.

Other points:

"The driving standard is poor in that he had to cut in front of you to avoid a collision". I think that misses the point. He only had to cut in front of me because he attempted an overtake which any reasonable driver could see was going to be very risky. Having made that misjudgement (if it was a misjudgement, which I doubt), he could have corrected it by aborting the overtake and slowing to remain behind me. He chose not to do so: a further misjudgement (if misjudgement it was...)

"In his opinion the driving standard of the bus driver is poor". So why not punish him for this? This isn't a matter of professional misconduct, which it would be appropriate for his employer to deal with. It's a matter of driving standard, which is a matter for the police and the CPS to deal with.

"...the fact that there was no collision... provides an element of mitigation" What!!! So, if there's no actual collsion, that's OK, then?

"... you did not have to greatly alter your position... provides an element of mitigation". I had to brake pretty hard though, and was placed in fear of my life. The decision maker seems to be saying that if found guilty in court, the driver could use these arguments to mitigate his sentence. Well, he might, but he might not. And even if he did, those would be points for a magistrate to consider, not the prosecution, surely?

Bye the way, I now have the impression (which could be mistaken) that writing to the central office initially, rather than phoning the switchboard, meant that the matter was taken seriously - perhaps because it becomes known to senior officers. In previous dealings with North Yorkshire police over traffic matters, when a collision has occurred, they have been extremely reluctant even to take a report or issue an incident number, let alone take any further action.
 

BSRU

A Human Being
Location
Swindon
Despite you having to brake hard, no collision occurred and no one was injured, that sounds like a good result.
The driver is going to get a talking to by the police whilst being made to watch the video plus his supervisor/manager will be there.

It would be ideal if the driver faced some legal punishment but these days it's never going to happen.
 
Just because there was no injury or collision, it could still be argued as careless/dangerous driving?

If your not happy dont leave it at that, put your reactions above back to him and see where that goes?
 

BentMikey

Rider of Seolferwulf
Location
South London
I'd be pretty happy with that result! I think that it's a suitable punishment, and is likely to be taken quite seriously by his employers and by the driver himself. The news will get around of helmet camera cyclists, and all the drivers that know about it at that company are likely to be much more careful in future.
 

benb

Evidence based cyclist
Location
Epsom
I think that's a good result, if a little long in coming!

He will be squirming, having to watch that in the presence of his supervisor and the police.
 
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