Interesting (alarming) police view on incidents

[Paul99]

What part of she was elderly and vulnerable aren't you getting? I'm paid to ensure my team respond appropriately to all incidents. I therefore will include all factors in my decision making. If you want to challenge it, go ahead. Do you want me to include data from the Contest and Prevent strategies surrounding the school? It features very highly on many vulnerability indexes, but I doubt it will make much of a difference to your indignant spluttering.

Bonus points? Manufactured hate crime arrests? Hypothetical positive discrimination question with thinly veiled criticism of a perfectly reasonable response?

Spare us please.

I asked you in my post if the race of the people involved wasn't relevant why mention it? You didn't answer that. To state that she was possibly being targeted because of her race indicates to me that you did think it was a possible hate crime and your quick response was in part due to this.

If the race of the people involved was relevant then it would be a hate crime wouldn't it? What is manufactured about it?

So then, to my original question, did the race of the people involved have anything to do with the seriousness with which you treated the incident? And if it didn't, why mention it?

 

[jarlrmai]

take a stronger position? I already have a flashing red light at all times.

If I road two feet left of the divider line, I think the beeping and punishment passes would become of an issue than close over takes, also most likely even more dangerous undertakes

 

[Hawk]

I asked you in my post if the race of the people involved wasn't relevant why mention it? You didn't answer that. To state that she was possibly being targeted because of her race indicates to me that you did think it was a possible hate crime and your quick response was in part due to this.

If the race of the people involved was relevant then it would be a hate crime wouldn't it? What is manufactured about it?

So then, to my original question, did the race of the people involved have anything to do with the seriousness with which you treated the incident? And if it didn't, why mention it?

These sorts of questions must frustrate officers who just want to do their jobs to no end, they are rather disrespectful to the officers involved in my opinion.

Yes, an officer does need to initially suggest that a crime may be a hate crime for it to ever be investigated as such. Yes, these are probably treated more seriously than other similar crimes because they are an attack on the identity of a person rather than a mere altercation over, for example, a dispute amongst neighbours.

No, it does not have anything to do with race per se, more the fact that the attack quite obviously *may* have been against the person's very existence due to prejudice.

I do not expect all bricks thrown through windows to be investigated that quickly if there is no indication of a possible hate crime.

I do expect all bricks thrown through windows to be investiaged with the same priority if there is the same indication of a possibility of a hate crime due to someone's race, sex, orientation, age and so forth.

 

[Hawk]

take a stronger position? I already have a flashing red light at all times.

If I road two feet left of the divider line, I think the beeping and punishment passes would become of an issue than close over takes, also most likely even more dangerous undertakes

I used to think the same, when I started commuting.

I was eventually forced in to such a position on a road like this that was in a state of disrepair, this was the only line I could take in the lane without going over extremely rough road. And I found myself feeling extraordinarily safe.

Counter-intuitive, but so is "primary position" in general

 

[gaz]

There is no point debating overtaking distance as per the highway code. It's all down to interpretation of what is said and it doesn't state specifically what we should get in any kind of law.

The DFT suggest that cars should leave 1.2 meters from the edge of the bicycles handlebars when overtaking at 20mph or 1.7 meters at 30mph.


edit:
Source page 16 and 17 taking into account the dynamic envelop is 0.2meters added on the side of each handlebar and adding that to suggested overtakes from table 2.2 on page 17

Edit 2: forgot to include at 20mph on 1.2 meters of space.

 

[Matthew_T]

There is no point debating overtaking distance as per the highway code. It's all down to interpretation of what is said and it doesn't state specifically what we should get in any kind of law.

The DFT suggest that cars should leave 1.2 meters from the edge of the bicycles handlebars when overtaking or 1.7 meters at 30mph.

edit:
Source page 16 and 17 taking into account the dynamic envelop is 0.2meters added on the side of each handlebar and adding that to suggested overtakes from table 2.2 on page 17

How many cars actually give you 4.3m of room though?

 

[gaz]

How many cars actually give you 4.3m of room though?

I suggest you read it again, you have misunderstood what that table is showing.

 

[Sara_H]

I would say this happens 2 - 3 times each time I ride, today was a special offer I guess.

This is what always baffles me - the close pass when there's a another lane or carriageway completely clear.

 

[Hawk]

This is what always baffles me - the close pass when there's a another lane or carriageway completely clear.

In my view, some drivers just treat a cyclist like a parked car and pass within inches without thinking. This is another argument for riding really far out from the kerb on such roads. Much increased presence on the road.

It seems to work for me..

 

[Cubist]

I asked you in my post if the race of the people involved wasn't relevant why mention it? You didn't answer that. To state that she was possibly being targeted because of her race indicates to me that you did think it was a possible hate crime and your quick response was in part due to this.

If the race of the people involved was relevant then it would be a hate crime wouldn't it? What is manufactured about it?

So then, to my original question, did the race of the people involved have anything to do with the seriousness with which you treated the incident? And if it didn't, why mention it?

I mentioned it because it was relevant in the decision making. It was another vulnerability factor. You however implied that we only went to the scene within the hour because we wanted to "score bonus points". That is not the case., We went to the scene quickly because the caller was 1) elderly, 2) a lone, elderly female, 3) a frightened, lone elderly female 4) a frightened, lone, elderly female Hindu who lives in a predominantly Muslim part of town. Therefore three factors led to our prioritising our initial response to the incident before ethnicity played a part, but the history of the incident (which only unfolded on our arrival) meant that the subsequent investigation had to consider that it was potentially a hate crime.

I've been explicit, now be honest about why you asked the questions you did.

Oh, and in the interest of open debate I'll be blunt; I found your post insulting.

 

[Matthew_T]

I suggest you read it again, you have misunderstood what that table is showing.

Oh so 4.3m is from the edge of the road/curb. So is it 1.5m + 0.5m (Dynamic envelope)?

 

[gaz]

Oh so 4.3m is from the edge of the road/curb. So is it 1.5m + 0.5m (Dynamic envelope)?

It's saying that the total space required, from the road edge to the right side of the car is 4.3m

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

Oh so 4.3m is from the edge of the road/curb. So is it 1.5m + 0.5m (Dynamic envelope)?

The advice in there is about how much space should be provided by road designers. In table 2.3, it is 4.3m from the kerb to the outside of the car, to include the cyclist, the car and all clearances. Table 2.2 suggests 1.5m from the dynamic envelope of the cyclist, which is 2m from the cyclists wheels. I reckon I get that kind of distance in possibly 20% of overtakes on our roads.
However, the video that I showed here, and countless others, demonstrate that, even when the car driver has plenty of space available, in this country they still usually pass closer than they need to, and sometimes excessively close.

 

[Paul99]

I mentioned it because it was relevant in the decision making. It was another vulnerability factor. You however implied that we only went to the scene within the hour because we wanted to "score bonus points". That is not the case., We went to the scene quickly because the caller was 1) elderly, 2) a lone, elderly female, 3) a frightened, lone elderly female 4) a frightened, lone, elderly female Hindu who lives in a predominantly Muslim part of town. Therefore three factors led to our prioritising our initial response to the incident before ethnicity played a part, but the history of the incident (which only unfolded on our arrival) meant that the subsequent investigation had to consider that it was potentially a hate crime.

I've been explicit, now be honest about why you asked the questions you did.

Oh, and in the interest of open debate I'll be blunt; I found your post insulting.

Thanks for you answer. In your original post you stated that you treated it very seriously because she was vulnerable AND possibly being targeted because of her race, which as you have indicated above it was only in the subsequent investigation that you had to consider it was potentially a hate crime. This rightly or wrongly lead me to believe that the hate crime was a factor in how seriously you treated it and responded to the call despite no indication that it had been reported as one. I still don't, in the context of why you posted, understand why you felt the need to mke mention of the race of anybody. It would have had the same relevance to the OP without the race being mentioned. That is my honest reason for asking the question. I didn't see the need for you to mention it, so I questioned it.

I realise that the bonus point thing was probably out of order, and for that alone I apologise. But if you were insulted then you are a delicate little flower and probably shouldn't go on the internet.

 

[boydj]

This is what always baffles me - the close pass when there's a another lane or carriageway completely clear.

That's almost certainly a 'punishment pass' - probably because there is what looks like a cycle path next to the road.