Interesting video on bicycle steering

[ColinJ]

I've watched the first two videos and find this very hard to believe. In fact I don't believe it.

A colleague told me about countersteering 30 years ago and I didn't believe him either!

I find the videos pretty convincing, but that remote control was a bit daft. Why not just make a bike that could never steer left of centre and then try to turn right?

In fact, one could test it by tying some string to the right side of the handlebar and riding in a straight line hands-free, just hanging onto the string. One can't push string so there is no way to steer left, only right by pulling on the string. Now, try to turn right... What happens?

 

[PaulSB]

A colleague told me about countersteering 30 years ago and I didn't believe him either!

I find the videos pretty convincing, but that remote control was a bit daft. Why not just make a bike that could never steer left of centre and then try to turn right?

In fact, one could test it by tying some string to the right side of the handlebar and riding in a straight line hands-free, just hanging onto the string. One can't push string so there is no way to steer left, only right by pulling on the string. Now, try to turn right... What happens?

I'm not sure I'm going to try the string thing but I will try to note what I do.......string sounds a good way to fall off and I'm not great at hands-free.

The remote control one doesn't convince me at all as the rider was so slow he didn't have adequate speed to make a controlled turn.

The motorcycle one I can see what happens but remain unconvinced. Seeing isn't always believing.

 

[T4tomo]

I've watched the first two videos and find this very hard to believe. In fact I don't believe it.

That's because we all do it intuitively, without thinking or noticing... its not strictly counter steering, its counter balancing if you lean to the right, you need to make a tiny adjustment to the steering to balance the bike, If you leant right and steered right, you'd hit the deck pretty sharpish

EDIT to say you can notice it on a long sweeping fast descent if you look at where your front wheel is pointing as you lean through the corners, but don't think about it too much and lose concentration!!

 

[MichaelW2]

This is why car engineers failed to make a heavier than air flying machine, leaving it to a couple of bicycle engineers.
Most flying cars are based on stabilty and steering ( as well as a heavy structure). The Wright Flyer didnt just invent a machine they invented the concept of flying: using balance and countersteer to control flight.

 

[MichaelW2]

When I am teaching people how to ride and balance on a bike I avoid riding in straight lines, it is too difficult. Instead, get them to ride in big radius swoopy curves, first left then right. They steer by leaning and balance by steering. By riding from one lean to another and avoiding the straight bit they pick it up much more rapidly.
A straight line is just a series of very large radius curves strung together, as anyone who has ever ridden in tram lines can testify.

 

[PaulSB]

That's because we all do it intuitively, without thinking or noticing... its not strictly counter steering, its counter balancing if you lean to the right, you need to make a tiny adjustment to the steering to balance the bike, If you leant right and steered right, you'd hit the deck pretty sharpish

EDIT to say you can notice it on a long sweeping fast descent if you look at where your front wheel is pointing as you lean through the corners, but don't think about it too much and lose concentration!!

Now this makes much more sense whether or not I'll be able to observe or sense it I don't know but I shall try.

If asked I would say cornering and steering, except at very low speeds, is about five things; speed, road position, leaning, body position and weight distribution. The one which I feel is deliberate or a matter of choice is road position.

I generally ride in groups ranging from 2/3 up to 12/13. When approaching a bend my first action is to check the position of those around me. From this I then can decide on my line, speed, "tightness" etc.

I don't think I ever consider steering.

 

[Dag Hammar]

Thank you si_c I very much enjoyed watching that video for the following reason.
Quite a few years ago I was watching a TV programme hosted by Stephen Fry, think it might have been Q I.
He stated that when riding a bicycle, if you want to turn left you firstly have to steer the handlebars slightly to the right and vice versa. I admit that I struggled to grasp the concept. Over the years I have occasionally tried to test the theory but of course, one rides a bike instinctively and also the input of opposite steering is so minimal it’s difficult to realise that you’re actually doing it.
As an aside, I have in the past watched a YouTube video of a man that converted a bike to opposing steering so that to turn right you had to try to turn left or to actually turn left you had to try to turn right. When the bike was offered to people to test ride it the results proved to be very amusing.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I heard about this a while ago
The reason I was wondering was that I had become too close to the kerb when riding earlier that day and had been unable to get the bike to turn away from it. I realise that the problem was that I was trying to turn left (UK hence riding on left) and I was so close to the kerb that the small left turn to initiate the right turn was not possible.

After that I started watching how I actually steered the bike and realised I always turn a fraction left to turn right - and vice versa.
I researched it online and found more details

It is rather weird - but works
I also found out about a technique involving just leaning without turning - this initiates the turn by unbalncing the bike so you automatically turn the same way to re-balance it
I am not at all sur ethat that works - It may work above a certain speed but when I try it I nearly fall off and am not sure my steering does what I think I am doing - any one else seen that?

 

[matticus]

I don't think I ever consider steering.

Yes, that is how I ride a bike (since age 6-7?). So I find "countersteering" a difficult thing to understand, even thought I've heard about it many times (mainly from motorcyclists who are also cyclists - I wonder if keen cyclists that then buy a motorbike are aware of it?). Much as I couldn't tell you how I walk down the street without falling over!
I'll try to watch the video and make further comment ...

 

[Dogtrousers]

When I push my bike I generally place my hand on the saddle and leave the handlebars free. I don't know why I have this habit, but anyway ...

When pushing a bike with your hand on the saddle and you wish to steer it (say) right, you definitely give it a little lean to the left to get the wheel pointing the correct way before pushing a bit harder to get it turning.

Which may or may not be relevant.

 

[T4tomo]

When I push my bike I generally place my hand on the saddle and leave the handlebars free. I don't know why I have this habit, but anyway ...

When pushing a bike with your hand on the saddle and you wish to steer it (say) right, you definitely give it a little lean to the left to get the wheel pointing the correct way before pushing a bit harder to get it turning.

Which may or may not be relevant.

Yes I do that too, some lady nearly crapped herself as my apparently "riderless" bike started to overtake her down the ramp to the platform at Euston as I was still behind her out of eyeshot.

 

[PaulSB]

When I push my bike I generally place my hand on the saddle and leave the handlebars free. I don't know why I have this habit, but anyway ...

When pushing a bike with your hand on the saddle and you wish to steer it (say) right, you definitely give it a little lean to the left to get the wheel pointing the correct way before pushing a bit harder to get it turning.

Which may or may not be relevant.

Well that's how I push my bike too but I'm going to have to test the rest of it!

Instinct and balance. What a huge part they play in the simplest of things.

 

[matticus]

When I push my bike I generally place my hand on the saddle and leave the handlebars free. I don't know why I have this habit,

Because it's clearly Cool As F' compared to pushing with the bars

(interestingly, i find some station down-ramps hard work with a loaded bike. It's somehow hard to hold the bike back. But if you avoid a pratfall, you're still cool. And that's what matters.)

 

[matticus]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cNmUNHSBac

OK, watched it - good video!
It's finally convinced me. And I actually understood the experiment with the very stable "bike" that had no caster and no gyros - very cool!

Now: when are they going to explain shimmy? That would be a lot more useful, as everyone could already ride a bike without knowing about counter-steering!

 

[Dag Hammar]

Following on from my earlier post, here’s a link to the Backwards Brain Bike.
Worth a look if you enjoyed the other video. .
View: https://youtu.be/MFzDaBzBlL0